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Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by bkdtv, Oct 19, 2007.

  1. Nov 21, 2009 #4121 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
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    Jan 4, 2003
    Nice! :up:
     
  2. Nov 22, 2009 #4122 of 10248
    opus123

    opus123 New Member

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    Feb 13, 2005
    Ok, I've run 6 of the 7 tests in the Kick-start 54 diagnostic (on my internal drive).
    - All were fast, except the 'sequential read' took about 6 hours
    - All checked out so far

    A little confusing, because it feels like there's an extra menu not accounted for in the instructions. Run S.M.A.R.T tests appears twice, alongside selecting internal or external drives.. and then again once you make a drive selection. To be safe I avoided it. and ran the 6 tests separately. Hopefully I didn't miss anything.

    Since everything passed, I'll move on to the KS 57 & 58 i guess.
     
  3. Nov 22, 2009 #4123 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
    2
    Jan 4, 2003
    Sounds good. Again there are more than a few folks here that ran KS54 and it showed nothing wrong. After trying everything else they eventually pulled their drive and ran a full diagnostic program (WD's Lifeguard) and it turned out that there were problems, however it's a good start.

    KS57 may only take a few minutes or could take several hours. The longer it takes the more likely there were issues. KS58 is transparent (you won't see the green warning screen) and might only run a few minutes but can go longer.

    If all of that goes well but the problems remain I'd pull the drive, set it aside, and put the original back in for a few days to see if the issues continue or not.

    Let us know how it goes!
     
  4. Nov 22, 2009 #4124 of 10248
    opus123

    opus123 New Member

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    Feb 13, 2005
    It's all complete... KS 57 ran for 1-2 hours... 58 went very fast.

    I'm going to delete all of the programs that recorded with pixelation, and see if it continues. If so, i'd just assume there was something wrong with the drive, since I haven't seen anything of this sort occur with my 2nd bedroom tivo.

    I ordered a 10EVDS the other day to be safe/prepared... especially since it seems possible drive compatibility could prove problematic down the road.
     
  5. Nov 22, 2009 #4125 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
    2
    Jan 4, 2003
    Good plan. If KS57 ran for a couple of hours it usually means that there were issues with the drive, most often bad sectors. It should have isolated the bad sectors preventing data being written to them again. That may do the trick but only time will tell.

    If you do use the new drive it's always a good idea to run a full diagnostic prior to imaging it. Most drives are fine but now and then... Making sure it's in good working order can save a lot of grief later.
     
  6. Nov 22, 2009 #4126 of 10248
    GreyhoundR

    GreyhoundR New Member

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    Nov 14, 2009
    Bullhead...
    Hi all - unfortunately I started using these forums after, not before, I did my latest HD swap, but I have some good benchmark info here to add to the collective wisdom. First time poster, please excuse if I'm breaking a lot of forum etiquette! (Last time I posted on something like this, it was on a daily digest mailing list circa 1998).

    I have two Tivo HDs bought this year (Tivo-Den in March and Tivo-Bed in August). In August at time I purchased Tivo-Bed, I bought two WD RE3 1tb drives (WD's high end enterprise drive with highest MTBF HD). I used WinMFS to copy + enlarge Tivo-Den (all internal, SATA to SATA) and I used WinMFS on the virgin drive image from the new Tivo-Bed and enlarged that onto the other new RE3 1tb drive. Both operations were quick and painless and have been running smooth through present day with zero glitches (aside from the noise of the RE3 which is insanely loud).

    Also, I'm a bit of a cooling/temperature fanatic with my computers, and all tech gear. . .having used maybe 100 hard drives in the last 10 years or so, I'm pretty sensitive to the method/mode of failure. So, the RE3s were really running too hot for me inside the Tivos and it was too loud for the Tivo-Bed in that room. I decided to try some 1tb WD Green consumer drives since they are approx $80 at CDW and see if I could get the temps and noise down a little bit.

    First I did Tivo-Bed with WinMFS going from WD 1tb RE3 to WD 1tb Green, and it worked flawlessly. Tivo-Bed's new HD was a: WD10EADS-00M2B0 Model made on 8/27/09. Remember this is the one that started off as a virgin drive image and went directly to the 1tb RE3 (not sure if that made a difference, but it's an interesting stat).

    Then I did Tivo-Den, same "from" and same "to" models and it didn't work so flawlessly. Differences: 1.) I don't think I said "yes" to the do you want to expand the unused space question (thinking it was going from 1tb to 1tb, how is there unused space?); 2.) This drive was technically expanded twice (once to the RE3 in August and now again to the EADS in November. This was also a WD10EADS-00M2B0, manufactured one day before on 8/26/09.

    The symptom was works for a while, then reboots and hangs on "Welcome, powering up" screen. I tried the 2 different clean up options in WinMFS (clean swap file, and . . .something else), no luck. I ran GRC SpinRite (awesome utility!) on Levels 1-4, found no problems. I ran every kickstart test pertaining to HD/Maintenance, still no joy.

    Then I googled for info about this drive in Tivos, came upon this forum and saw similar stories.

    So I bought a new WD10EVDS-63N5B1, the "non-consumer" Green drive (approx $90 @ CDW), made on 10/10/09, used WinMFS to restore (w/o user recordings just to play it safe and make it go faster), worked easy as pie, and was able to restore some of my programs from the other Tivo where I had backed them up.

    So, two exact same WD10EADS drives, two slightly different situations, two very different outcomes.

    I think in any case, I would get the EVDS regardless, for the $10 it costs you get a 5 year warranty instead of a 3. Normally I go through hard drives quicker than that on PCs, etc, but all my S2 Tivos went more than 5 years before I outgrew them.

    Hope this info helps. . . oh, and it never really occurred to me before this escapade what a lifesaver a fresh Tivo image could be. PM me if you'd like an image of mine - it's a .dmg file I did on my Mac, Win users should be able to change the extension to .iso and work with it. It's 25gb compressed image, not booted ever, uber new Tivo HD, with the partition layout intact.

    -Ry
     
  7. Nov 23, 2009 #4127 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
    2
    Jan 4, 2003
    Welcome to the forum and very nice recap. :up: It does indeed seem that "re-using" the image on the one drive caused some issues although it could be something else. IIRC there is a limit to re-expanding a drive but I can't recall the specifics. And yes, each time, no matter the old or new drive's size, you have to tell winMFS to expand the new drive.

    Like you I've done both...used an original TiVo drive image (preserve settings only) w/winMFS to create a new 1TB a few times as well as a mirror copy (preserved settings and recordings) from a 1TB WD10EADS to a 1TB WD10EVCS. Both went without a hitch.

    Your WD10EADS was manufactured before the (apparently) problematic Aug/Sep date so you shouldn't see any issues. However have you attempted a soft reboot? (Restart TiVo from the menu.)

    With regard to TiVo images, it's against forum policy (as well as TiVo's TOS) to distribute TiVo images so I'd avoid doing that. Fresh images included in a program called Instant Cake are always available from an approved vendor (and forum sponsor) DVRUpgrade.com. Link:

    http://www.dvrupgrade.com/dvr/stores/1/instantcake.cfm

    I'm a Mac guy as well but I keep a PC that I built handy for upgrades and other odds and ends. However most (all?) Mac upgraders have used a virtual machine (VMWare Fusion or Parallels) to accomplish the upgrade. Can you elaborate on your Mac experience since it's a little more complicated than using a standard PC?

    Thanks again for the data points...always welcome and very valuable.

    Enjoy!
     
  8. Nov 25, 2009 #4128 of 10248
    sasmps

    sasmps Dirtdober

    163
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    Jan 1, 2008
    Kansas
    Ran into problems last night upgrading my series 3. I was copying the entire disk using the instructions from the forum, estimated 3 hours to complete. Sometime during the night, microsoft decided to reboot my box. I do not know how far it got, or if it completed.

    I dropped the new 1TB drive in the S3, and now it will not boot.

    Ok to just start over?
     
  9. Nov 25, 2009 #4129 of 10248
    sasmps

    sasmps Dirtdober

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    Jan 1, 2008
    Kansas
    Update... it helps if you connect the cable to the hard drive...

    I have successfully rebooted the S3, and it appears I have all my old recordings, and able to access all channels. Guess I got lucky, and the microsoft reboot occured after completion.

    I went into the system info screen, and the S3 reports the old disk capacity of 36 hours of HD. Does this update? How and where do you go to confirm Tivo knows it has all this extra disk? (1TB WD10EVDS).

    Also the instructions say when MFScopy completes, i should get a prompt box asking if I want to expand the drive. As the machine rebooted, I did not see or respond to this prompt. Is that why the Tivo does not report the extra disK?
     
  10. Nov 25, 2009 #4130 of 10248
    sasmps

    sasmps Dirtdober

    163
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    Jan 1, 2008
    Kansas
    I am reporting all is well... reattached the upgraded drive to WinMFS and used msfadd to address the extra space. Tivo now reports 157 hours of capacity.
     
  11. Nov 25, 2009 #4131 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
    2
    Jan 4, 2003
    Nice work! If everything worked perfectly from the start it wouldn't have been nearly as satisfying would it? ;) Congrats!

    I've been following your posts regarding the other (signal?) issues you've been dealing with. Hope that gets cleared up soon.

    Oh...and welcome to the "Big Boys" club! :D
     
  12. Nov 25, 2009 #4132 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
    2
    Jan 4, 2003
    Noted that MacMall is offering the Fantom 1TB Green eSATA drive for $59.99 AR. (Rebates end December 1st) That's the lowest price I've seen to date.

    http://www.macmall.com/p/4927517?so...-31722708-2&srccode=cii_10043468&dpno=7532251

    Series3 users have had long-term success with this drive and it can be attached via plug and play.

    EDIT: Looks like OnSale.com is price matching the same drive:

    http://www.onsale.com/p/product~dpn...75F5AF76043BEE002383A0BA4270707F?source=BWBCJ

    BTW I've had experience with both vendors (or maybe they're one in the same?) and they both did a good job of being on time with good packing.

    NOTE: This drive will NOT work as an expansion drive via plug and play with the TiVo HD or HDXL models.
     
  13. Nov 25, 2009 #4133 of 10248
    sasmps

    sasmps Dirtdober

    163
    0
    Jan 1, 2008
    Kansas
    Thanks Riches.... your post are also a 'must read'.

    My GSAS issues have disappeared as strangley as the appeared. 3 months and no GSAS issues. I still moniter the other thread to see if I can help, wish I could do more.
     
  14. Nov 25, 2009 #4134 of 10248
    keenanSR

    keenanSR Member TCF Club

    915
    2
    Oct 12, 2004
    Santa Rosa CA
    I did this the very first time I installed a larger drive in my S3. :D
     
  15. Nov 25, 2009 #4135 of 10248
    Dssturbo1

    Dssturbo1 New Member

    1,871
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    Feb 22, 2005
    still a glitch in WinMFS. it's been reported for awhile. would have thought Spike would put out an update with that fixed.

    glad you got it going full speed congrats.
     
  16. Nov 26, 2009 #4136 of 10248
    sasmps

    sasmps Dirtdober

    163
    0
    Jan 1, 2008
    Kansas
    I am not sure it is a WinMFS bug, more a situation of circumstance.

    Because I lauched MFSCopy and let it run overnight, I was not there when the prompt to expand the drive displayed (as it took close to 4 hours to back up the entire legacy disk).

    The Microsoft update reboot that occured (apparently after the copy was complete thank goodness) terminated the program and wiped the prompt from the screen, so when I checked on it in the morning, I had no idea if the copy completed sucessfully, nor did i see the prompt to expand the drive.

    Some possible suggestions for WinMFS:

    A log.... track the progress of the copy and report a successfull completion. If you get rebooted for some reason, you will know where you stand.


    Expand Switch...Why would you not want to expand the drive? Seems that could be check box selection when you launch MFSCopy, so a prompt when the copy is complete is no longer necessary. The choice is still presented, just at the beginning. When you are copying the entire disk, this may be handy.

    Harddrive Adaptor recommendation..... I have 4 computers in the house, and not one of them had an extra power port on the SATA ribbon cable in the box. They had one additional SATA port, but not for power. I needed ports for 2 additional drives anyway, so a USB Harddrive adaptor was the only way to go. The instructions for WinMFS mention drive docks, but I did not find any that could handle 5 and a half inch SATA drives. If you are going to buy one, I would get one that supports IDE, SATA, 2,3, and 5 inch drives. I purchased 2 Inland IDE/SATA/USB Harddrive adaptors, and had to return both units back to the store due to bad transformers. The replacement units worked ok, but I feel the Inland units are very cheap (yes, only $15 each). So I would suggest a more extensive recommendation on just what to buy here. There are some really smart folks that contribute to the forum.. any suggestions offered go to the top of my consideration list.

    When I removed the new drive and put it back on the computer and fired up WinMFS, it took 2 seconds for MFSadd to expand the drive. I now see all 157 hours of recording time.

    As for WinMFS, slick... nicely done for a utility that the author does not charge a dime for. There some awfully smart folks that donate there talents to the betterment of this user community.
     
  17. Nov 26, 2009 #4137 of 10248
    GreyhoundR

    GreyhoundR New Member

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    Nov 14, 2009
    Bullhead...
    Yes, attempted soft reboot, and it would immediately hang on the "Welcome, powering up. . .". However, that was only on the Tivo that had been previously expanded (Tivo-Den) and also didn't have the "use extra space" option checked on the most recent clone attempt.

    Links to Instant Cake removed by GreyhoundR due to link restrictions on new users in posts, see OP for links

    Thank you very much for pointing that out and sorry for my faux pas - sponsors for websites like this man oh man, they need our patronage. Hard core users and a company that's willing to subsidize a user forum, that's always been a good match.

    Sorry if I was unclear - I did all WinMFS work directly in real PCs, using internal SATA connections. I only used my Mac to create my personal backup image of the clean Tivo drive, for posterity purposes. . .because it's so falling off a rock simple to do drive clone/compress/restore work on a Mac with any interface (USB, Firewire, SATA, etc).

    So glad to have found a fun and knowledgeable community! I don't know if it's possible to be more addicted to Tivo than I already am, but maybe a Slingbox HD for the holidays, who knows? I'll have to see what the word on the street here is and get busy searching the forums.

    -Ry
     
  18. Nov 27, 2009 #4138 of 10248
    GreyhoundR

    GreyhoundR New Member

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    Nov 14, 2009
    Bullhead...
    (if answers to any of this go way off topic or would have little interest to the group at large, feel free to PM me, I'd still like to help you)

    1. 5 inch Sata drives? I'm unclear. . .SATA drives come in 2.5" (laptop) and 3.5" (desktop) sizes. Desktop computers have 5.25" drive bays that are usually occupied by optical drives, but with an adapter bracket can hold a 2.5" or 3.5" hard drive.

    2. Docks/Caddies - I own lots of them, USB, Firewire, eSata, multi drive, single drive. . .in my experience I've gotten consistently faster and more reliable results using internal SATA connections connected directly to the motherboard. If you don't have any other options, then yes - you might need a dock. But going straight SATA to SATA is faster and more reliable than even SATA to eSATA (in certain occasions when there is a less than high quality chipset on the eSATA chipset in your external enclosure). Personally I like the multi-interface dual-drive ones that are out there (especially Firewire since most people don't have eSATA ports yet). So far I like the Startech SATADOCK22UE for a dual drive solution and the NewerTech Voyager™ Q for a quad interface solution.

    3. Don't have enough internal SATA ports available on your motherboard? Even if you unplug your optical drive? If not, you're sort of SOL without adding in another SATA controller card or just doing a dock for one of the drives.

    4. Don't have enough SATA power ports? Very easy to add quite cheaply, go to monoprice and search "sata" - absolute great quality and dirt cheap sata cables, sata power, etc. A lot of them are out of stock at the moment (they are moving their warehouse) Newegg is also good, just search "sata cable."

    Hope this helps!
    -Ry
     
  19. Nov 27, 2009 #4139 of 10248
    musiclover408

    musiclover408 New Member

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    Sep 5, 2004
    I wanted to ask the "experts" before I spend this kinda cash. I found this on eBay and it seems like a good deal especially with the lifetime service included. I have read a little bit elsewhere that drives with 2tb can be some trouble.

    Here's the link to the auction.
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220515246817

    Can you tell me if this is a good deal or not or is it better to get an XL and a DVR expander external drive? Suggestions and help please.

    Thanks!
     
  20. Nov 27, 2009 #4140 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
    2
    Jan 4, 2003
    Ah, got it...and oh, so true...drop dead simple with a Mac...a little more complicated with PC's. Although winMFS is as about as simple as it gets when it comes to implementing a TiVo HDD upgrade.

    Enjoy!
     

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