1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by bkdtv, Oct 19, 2007.

  1. Jun 21, 2009 #3061 of 10248
    lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

    6,924
    0
    Aug 31, 2003
    San...
    Sleep? What's sleep? :)

    Yes.

    Yes.

    Drive enclosure? What drive enclosure? At this point the only thing active should be the TiVo.

    If you feel more comfortable, you can put the case hood on the frame, but there certainly is no need to screw all the screws back in to the case. You don't want the drive rolling around inside and shorting out things, either, so if you leave the drive in the drive mount, then I would screw in at least two of the screws to secure it. Alternately, you can wrap the drive in a piece of heavy construction paper and tape the paper in place to keep its metal parts from coming into accidental contact with the Tivo innards. Certainly keep your fingers and any conductive objects away from the inside of the TiVo while power is applied. Also be aware that when the TiVo is shut down, it can take some time for the filter capacitors on the power supply to fully discharge. After a few seconds the voltages will not be hazardous to your body if you touch them, but a conductive object like a screwdriver shorted across them can generate a flash large enough to cause a small burn or to destroy components inside the unit. Unless you know what's what, it's best to let the unit sit for 4 or 5 minutes after unplugging it before sticking a screwdriver in it.

    I expect it will, but let's not assume. If it doesn't, all is still not lost, but we will have to get a bit more creative. 'Worst case, you might have to shell out $20 for a copy of InstantCake.

    You might consider investing in an eSATA bracket like this, this or this for future utility. (Has anyone on the forum tried the third bracket out? It looks to be absolutely perrfect for use with an Antec MX-1 housing, if the power pin-outs are correct.)

    It sounds like you did.

    Correct. Supersizing can be done either before or after marrying the two drives. It's not part of the marriage process, and in fact it can be done before you remove the drive the first time, but I wanted to break the process down into small steps, checking along the way.

    The next time you get to the point where you are about to marry the two drives, look carefully at the WinMFS screen when you select the A (Upgrade) drive. It should look something like this:

    [​IMG]

    Well, I can't say what happened, since I was not there, but at a guess I would say despite your precautions, you accidentally got the drives swapped when selecting the primary and external drive. Don't feel foolish, if that's the case. I'm a professional engineer and I cannot count the times I have checked, double checked, and triple checked to make sure I had things in the right order, or polarities correct, or the safety in the correct position only to have the whole thing go ker-plewey because despite my checking it was not correct. After more than 30 years, it still happens to me all the time.

    Exactly. It's a little extra time, but it makes sure everything is correct to this point.

    Surely. In fact, if you re-read my post, you will see that is precisely my suggestion.

    No, not really. As long as the primary (Original or Upgrade) drive is plugged into the correct connector and properly powered, the TiVo should boot. Now it probably won't boot all the way up before it complains about an unrecognized external drive, but it should still boot.

    No, it won't harm the TiVo or physicaly harm the drives, but I suspect the formatting was munged by having the drives swapped in the PC when you married them. It's really not a huge deal either way, other than of course wasting your time.

    Not after they are married, no. Once they are married, both need to be present for the TiVo to boot up. It should not trash things, but the TiVo will complain about the missing External drive and refuse to boot unless you tell it to perform a divorcement. If you accidentally do, then you will have to re-marry the drives. The bottom line is no, I would not particularly recommend booting up only the Upgrade drive once it is married to the External drive.
     
  2. Jun 21, 2009 #3062 of 10248
    bkdtv

    bkdtv New Member

    7,902
    0
    Jan 9, 2003
    DC Metro Area
    I use a bracket like the one below (it came with my motherboard). It includes a build in power connector and a bundled SATA->eSATA cable.

    [​IMG]
    Click picture for order link.
     
  3. Jun 21, 2009 #3063 of 10248
    lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

    6,924
    0
    Aug 31, 2003
    San...
    That's neat, too, but the one from Newegg looks like perhaps it will work directly with an Antec MX-1 housing. I can't see the number of pins in the connector, and of course I have no way to confirm the pin-out over the web, but man, if it does indeed plug straight in to the MX-1, I definitely want it. Since I have refined the process for maintainng my TiVos, the main remaining hassle is moving the power bricks around and hauling out a power strip every time I need to pull the external drives (which are set up as my primary drives, rather than secondary drives) and move them to the PC.
     
  4. Jun 21, 2009 #3064 of 10248
    DCIFRTHS

    DCIFRTHS I dumped SDV / cable

    2,119
    0
    Jan 6, 2000
    New York
    The adapter is compatible with the Icy Dock enclosures, listed on the product page for the bracket. You may be able to find a manual for one of the enclosures that includes a description of how the power cable is wired.
     
  5. Jun 21, 2009 #3065 of 10248
    lynnalexandra

    lynnalexandra New Member

    107
    0
    Apr 26, 2009
    lrhorer - thanks for confirming and breaking that down. I will try all of that (but no doubt get interrupted by my daughter and husband since it's father's day). I would love to use an external esata bracket and power connector like bkdtv showed above. The problem I discovered yesterday is that my Dell Inspiron 530 has no molex connectors. Just 2 free sata power connectors (yesterday I plugged my drives into those for power).

    Now my antec mx-1 enclosure came with an esata bracket just like the first one lrhorer linked http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812226006. I think I can add this bracket to my pc and be able to plug in the enclosed antec case with external hard drive - directly into this newly added esata port. The problem is, where to get power. If the drive is left enclosed, I can't access it to use the pc's sata power connector. Can I just use the power cord that comes with the Antec mx-1 - and plug it into a wall outlet (or power strip)?

    {I would love to eventually get the dual esata port from lrhorer's second link: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812201015
    but again, I'd need to know how I'm going to power the external drives.

    When I married the two drives, I got the same screen lrhorer shows above. I selected the Tivo Series 2 or 3 (number 2) for drive A - and the external drive to drive B. Then I checked select B - chose the drive in 1, which indicated it was (I think) something like an unknown format - clearly not the Tivo formatted drive. Do you happen to know what it should look like after selecting drive B? When I select mfsadd, what screen should I see?

    Thanks to everyone. What a generous helpful group of people. I'd be lost without you. As painful as this process has been, I have learned a lot that will put me in good stead for future upgrade work on my pc. (now my family would like their Tivo back - for some reason, running the coax cable from comcast straight to our tv is no longer working - I assume unrelated to this Tivo struggle.)

    Thanks.
    Lynn.
     
  6. Jun 21, 2009 #3066 of 10248
    lynnalexandra

    lynnalexandra New Member

    107
    0
    Apr 26, 2009
    Okay - I've gotten so far as to program the new internal drive - and it runs - but also at some point mentions the missing external drive. If I turn on and connect the external drive I had thought I'd prepared last night, it doesn't recognize it. So I figured the problem was with the marrying the two drives (new internal and new external). So I hooked it up to my computer again. Try to run Winmfs.

    If I just select drive A (number 1), it says error - Your A drive is married to B drive but only A drive is selected. So I'm thinking great - the marriage worked. Now I go to select A and B drive. I choose 1 for A drive and 2 for the B drive. Both drives now say the same thing - same model number - Format Tivo Series 2 or 3. Size 1000 GB. Bus Type ATA. SAme sectors. Again it seems they've already been married. If I then go to MFSadd, it says "you are about to write to Tivo Drive(s); Are you sure? This is what I got yesterday - before I had said okay to mfsadd. For now, I won't say yes but wait to hear back from this forum. To me, this is again suggesting that both drives are Tivo ready.

    But for further diagnostics - I will switch the selected drives. So now for Drive A I've selected 2 - and for Drive B I"ve selected 1. Then his select. Then select MFSadd, and it says "not a Tivo drive." So I'm stumped. This suggests that one of these drives is not Tivo ready - but when I selected the other way around, it says I'd be writing on a Tivo drive.

    So I will leave it all hooked up and hope somebody can tell me how to proceed. When I ran the new internal drive in my Tivo, it was looking for the external drive - but didn't recognize the external drive when it was connected. It almost seems as though the internal drive knows it's married, but the external drive doesn't. But either way I proceed to try to run mfsadd, there's a problem. Either it gives the yellow triangle warning that it's "not a tivo drive" or the warning that
    you are about to write to a Tivo drive." This second warning will let me proceed anyway.

    So what should I do.
    Thanks.
    Lynn.
     
  7. Jun 21, 2009 #3067 of 10248
    MPSAN

    MPSAN Active Member

    1,194
    1
    Jun 20, 2009
    Portland,...
    Well, I plan on sharing and thought that 1TB was enough for one of them.

    These drums were so hard to keep running! So well balanced, too. We would run a razor blade to see if there was a ding and a 1000 lb. horizontal drum would move if the blade hit a ding!
     
  8. Jun 21, 2009 #3068 of 10248
    MPSAN

    MPSAN Active Member

    1,194
    1
    Jun 20, 2009
    Portland,...
    lynn...

    What was suggested above was all I was trying to say yesterday. ie: do one thing at a time and in that way you will know which step was causing the problem. I know it will all work out in the end.

    OH, Comcast going to TV without TiVo may have issues if the TV does not have ATSC Tuners with a CableCard letting you view stations that are not "in the clear".
     
  9. Jun 21, 2009 #3069 of 10248
    lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

    6,924
    0
    Aug 31, 2003
    San...
    Yeah, that's the whole idea. No matter where the external drive is plugged in, it gets its power from the included power brick.

    Any external drive is always going to come with an auxiliary power supply.

    Prior to the marriage, just as you describe.

    It's been so long I don't exactly remember, but it should then recognize both drives. The MFS Info utility from within WinMFS will give you a lot of information.
     
  10. Jun 21, 2009 #3070 of 10248
    lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

    6,924
    0
    Aug 31, 2003
    San...
    Yeah, you're a noob, no question about it. :)

    My TiVo's have 500G, 1T, and 2T, and my Video Server has 8T, plus I have a couple of workstations I use for editing which have 1T apiece.

    Go ahead and laugh. You'll see. You'll get the fever, too. ;)
     
  11. Jun 21, 2009 #3071 of 10248
    MPSAN

    MPSAN Active Member

    1,194
    1
    Jun 20, 2009
    Portland,...
    OK...I do have the 20 hour Comcast boxes and run out of room fast! But, you can not share from room to room. I do have 3 ReplayTV's and have put 250GB drives in them. They can share and 250GB was a lot for SD!
     
  12. Jun 21, 2009 #3072 of 10248
    lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

    6,924
    0
    Aug 31, 2003
    San...
    Hang on.

    First of all, you are supplying power to the external enclosure via the power brick, right? Whether attached to the computer or the TiVo, that's how the external drive gets its power.

    Secondly, the order you mention is backwards. You must power up the external drive (the little blue light underneath the front panel will come on) and plug it into the TiVo first, and then you can power up the TiVo.

    I would give it a shot. Alternately (or if it does not work), you can put the Upgrade drive in the TiVo, boot it up, and tell it to perform the divorce.

    After that, put the drive back in the PC and run FixDivorce from WinMFS, and then add in the External drive and re-marry them.
     
  13. Jun 21, 2009 #3073 of 10248
    MPSAN

    MPSAN Active Member

    1,194
    1
    Jun 20, 2009
    Portland,...
    So, being new to TiVo HD...

    How New Are You?
    I am so new I do not have them yet!

    UPS says they are in Texas...will get here June 25th...the day after my Birthday in case anyone wants to know.

    Anyway, I do have a suggestion that would be a big help.

    In the first post of this Thread there is the very good FAQ and detail of everything you want to know about upgrading, etc.

    It takes a bit to scroll down...especially if you know from a previous read that you want Section IV. Could links be added at the top with the section titles that would link us directly there?

    ie:


    I. Summary of Expansion Options
    II. Introduction
    III. Officially Supported External Drives (also known as "TiVo Verified" drives)
    IV. Unsupported External Drives (also known as "Non-Verified" drives)
    V. Internal Drive Upgrades

    If those...and the others had a direct link that takes you to the section we wanted it would be a big help.

    Thank you,
     
  14. Jun 21, 2009 #3074 of 10248
    lynnalexandra

    lynnalexandra New Member

    107
    0
    Apr 26, 2009
    lrhorer - honestly - I've connected and unconnected this stuff so many times, that I don't know if I got the order wrong every time. I know the last time I had plugged the external drive in before powering up the Tivo - but didn't realize until after I powered up the Tivo that the hard switch was off on the esata drive. I put it on - but perhaps doing it out of sequence caused it to fail. The times I tried last night, I cannot recall the order - bc. I did not know there was a recommended order to powering these things up. (It would be nice if that were included in the first section too. Step 21 currently says, "#


    # Reinstall the internal drive, replace the TiVo's outer case, and connect the eSATA drive.

    # You're done." For a newbie like me, I guess that just wasn't specific enough instruction. I think I did see elsewhere on this thread today (or somewhere in my hours of online research today) that the order mattered. Again, I just don't know if I ever got the order right. maybe that was the only problem.

    So I'll re-marry - and guess if it's already married, a second ceremony won't hurt anything. If it doesn't work, I'll do the divorce as you suggested - return to winmfs and try again.

    Just one more thing to be sure - by "power brick" (a new term to me), you mean the little box that has a cord attaching to the esata enclosure and another cord coming out and ending in a standard plug that plugs into a wall socket? That is what I used. And since that seemed to work, I can see that I can get that double estata port. For now, I just put the single esata port in my pc (the one the antec mx-1 came with).

    Okay - here I go again. Surely the ninth time is the charm.
    Thanks again for your patience and guidance.

    Lynn.
     
  15. Jun 21, 2009 #3075 of 10248
    lynnalexandra

    lynnalexandra New Member

    107
    0
    Apr 26, 2009
    YIPPEE! Finally - done. Tivo HD with 1TB internal hard drive and 1TB external hard drive. FWIW, all my recorded shows had transferred to the new internal drive in the hour it took MSFcopy to copy from the original drive.

    I tried to remarry the drives - it failed and said there was no more space on the drive. So again, it seemed the external drive was already married. So I unhooked drives from the pc and installed in the Tivo and Esata enclosure. This time, I turned on the esata drive first and powered the Tivo last. It went through the initial warm up - gave the screen "almost there" - Then in the few minutes I was gone to tuck my daughter in, the screen was blank. I didn't know whether it had said anything about the external drive or not. I could not get a Tivo screen back up.

    So I unplugged the Tivo- waited a minute - repowered the Tivo. And the entire set up worked - the external drive shows up. All is well. I don't know why it didn't work the time before - but it did this time.

    Thanks for all the help.
    Lynn.
     
  16. Jun 21, 2009 #3076 of 10248
    ThAbtO

    ThAbtO TiVoholic by the bay

    6,736
    8
    Apr 6, 2000
    SF Bay Area
    How many hours do you have now?
     
  17. Jun 21, 2009 #3077 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
    2
    Jan 4, 2003
    I knew if I waited long enough you'd get it! ;) Apologies, I've been away for the better part of two days and didn't have time to get back into the mix. I'm glad several of our knowledgeable friends were able to assist you with your goal. I'm even happier that everything is as it should be. Nice work! :up:

    BTW, if you ever have to move your setup:

    Powering TiVo and eSATA drive down:

    1. Disconnect/unplug TiVo
    2. Turn off and unplug the eSATA drive
    3. Unplug the eSATA cable from TiVo and the eSATA drive

    Setting TiVo back up

    1. Connect the eSATA cable to the eSATA drive and TiVo
    2. Connect the eSATA drive to power and turn it on (wait 10 seconds or so for the drive to spin up)
    3. Connect power to TiVo

    The official TiVo instructions can be found here as well.

    Basically you just don't want to unplug or turn off the eSATA drive while TiVo is plugged in as it will ask to divorce the drive. As long as TiVo is unplugged you can pretty much do whatever you need to do with the eSATA drive. Just make sure the drive is on and plugged into TiVo before plugging TiVo back in.

    Congrats and welcome to the club! :)
     
  18. Jun 22, 2009 #3078 of 10248
    lynnalexandra

    lynnalexandra New Member

    107
    0
    Apr 26, 2009
    Thabto - I now have 318 Hd hours or 2777 SD hours. That should keep me busy for a few months. That's just the Tivo HD. On my Tivo 2 I have a 500GB hard drive (don't think this preformatted drive was mfssupersized - so probably about 600 SD hours there. And then there's my PC - where I can transfer shows and store there if needed. After this, I think it will be easy for my to add a second internal 1TB hard drive to my PC.

    Thanks Rich. Glad to be part of the club. And I appreciate the instructions for unplugging, replugging, moving any of these in the future. (It really would help us newbies to put more instructions in the first part with order of reconnecting after upgrading).

    Thanks to all for your generosity and wisdom.
    Lynn.
     
  19. Jun 22, 2009 #3079 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
    2
    Jan 4, 2003
    It's like Groucho said..."I don't want to join a club that will accept me as a member". But of course you're welcome. Just be careful not to let anyone else know who you're associating with. ;)

    Waiting a month before upgrading is a very good idea. :up: That way you'll know that everything is running as it should.
     
  20. Jun 22, 2009 #3080 of 10248
    MPSAN

    MPSAN Active Member

    1,194
    1
    Jun 20, 2009
    Portland,...
    Thanks Rich.

    I now need to call Comcast to see if I can get 3 M-Cards in our area.

    Cover me...I'm goin in!!
     

Share This Page