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Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by bkdtv, Oct 19, 2007.

  1. Jun 17, 2009 #3021 of 10248
    bkdtv

    bkdtv New Member

    7,902
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    Jan 9, 2003
    DC Metro Area
    No.

    The FAQ is always updated to reflect the latest available information. Note the "Last Updated: June/5/2009" at the top of the FAQ.
     
  2. Jun 17, 2009 #3022 of 10248
    djwilso

    djwilso Member

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    Dec 23, 2006
    Phoenix, AZ
    Using the guide in the first post of this thread, I was able to successfully replace the internal drive of my TiVo Original Series 3 with the recommended WD10EVCS drive.

    I just wanted to say thanks to bkdtv and all of the contributors to the guide that made it so easy.

    Once upon a time I upgraded the drive in my original Series 1 back around 2002, and MFS has really come a long way since then.

    This guide saved a lot of money over purchasing a drive from DVRUpgrade or Weaknees and allowed me to save all of my recordings and CableCard pairing data.

    So, thank you thank you thank you! :)

    Dennis
     
  3. Jun 17, 2009 #3023 of 10248
    lynnalexandra

    lynnalexandra New Member

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    Apr 26, 2009
    ThAbto - thank you. I do realize I have to open up the Tivo as well to get the original drive out - and to place the newly prepared upgraded drive in. I already did that with a prepared drive for my Tivo 2 - so the opening and replacing drives part didn't scare me. The programming and going into my computer is intimidating - but I think there's enough support here, well written instructions and Rich's endless patience - that I'm going to do it. (It was the DVR Expander I didn't want to open since Rich said some have had difficulties with that.)

    My Antec Mx-! and sata cables arrived today. Hopefully the two drives will come by Friday and I can get this done over the weekend.

    Thanks.
    Lynn.
     
  4. Jun 18, 2009 #3024 of 10248
    triger716

    triger716 New Member

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    Jun 18, 2009
    Ok while not a new Tivo user, I haven't used tivo since the original Sony DirecTivo Sat-T60.

    I just have a couple of questions. I will be using a Tivo with FIOS (I don't have either FIOS or the Tivo yet) and have a few questions about that, but will post those in a different thread.

    My main questions are on the possible upgraded HDD size on the TivoHD vs the TivoHD XL.

    1) From reading this thread my understanding is that the maximum size for the TivoHD is 1.0TB for the internal + 1.0TB External for a total of 2.0TB. For the TivoHD. For the TivoHD XL the maximum size would be 2.0TB for the internal + 1.0TB for the external for a total of 3.0TB. Is this correct?

    2) If number one is right, are the maximum size differences between the TivoHD and the TivoHD XL due to the differences in the Tivo's themselves or is it due to the WinMFS program?

    I am basically trying to decide if I want to take advantage of the Father's Day special and get the TivoHD or buy a TivoHD XL. I want the one that will give me the largest total HDD size possible after upgrade. I will most likely do the upgrade right away.

    Also has anybody tried using a Seagate Showcase ST31000SCA109-RK 1TB external HDD with a TivoHD? I know it probably wouldn't be "Plug and Play" but I would be upgrading the internal Tivo drive anyway.


    Thanks. Looking forward to rejoining the world of Tivo. No other DVR I have used since the Sony Tivo Sat-T60 has come close to it.
     
  5. Jun 18, 2009 #3025 of 10248
    bkdtv

    bkdtv New Member

    7,902
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    Jan 9, 2003
    DC Metro Area
    No. The maximum total internal+external size for either platform is the same 2.2TB (2.0TiB).

    With current tools, the maximum possible capacity for a single internal or external drive is 1.1TB (1.0TiB) plus the capacity of the original drive. Hence, the maximum capacity for a single internal or external drive is 1.26TB for the TivoHD and 2.1TB for the TivoHD XL. If you prepared a 2.1TB internal drive for the TivoHD XL, then you could only use a ~0.1TB external drive.

    The single drive differences are due to partition differences between the two platforms. WinMFS works by expanding a separate partition [up] to 1.1TB, so you have that capacity plus the original 160GB (TivoHD) or 1TB (TivoHD XL) partition.

    If you buy the TivoHD XL, then you can add the "plug and play" 1TB My DVR Expander.

    The TivoHD XL costs almost $400 more, however, at $488 (Amazon.com) plus $399 lifetime (price for new customers).

    That looks like a good drive if you are going to pair an external drive manually with WinMFS, but it is pricy. Newegg.com wants $185 + shipping. The Fantom Drives GD1000EU would be much cheaper at $89.99 after rebate.
     
  6. Jun 18, 2009 #3026 of 10248
    triger716

    triger716 New Member

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    Jun 18, 2009
    Thanks bkdtv for the quick response. Looks like I'll be ordering the Father's Day Special if the ultimate HDD size upgrade is the same with both the HD and the HD XL.
     
  7. Jun 19, 2009 #3027 of 10248
    DixonAgee

    DixonAgee New Member

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    Jan 19, 2005
    I wonder if the WD10 EVCS stock is about to run out. Suddenly the Buy.com price is $160 - and Amazon.com lists it for $265.:eek: Others still have it for less, but for how long?

    Fortunately the WD10 EVVS is still available at around $100 from these folks.

    Regards,

    DixonAgee
     
  8. Jun 19, 2009 #3028 of 10248
    jlib

    jlib Lean Forward

    1,063
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    Nov 21, 2002
    Carmel...
    For TiVO upgrade purposes there is no advantage to getting the more expensive model
     
  9. Jun 20, 2009 #3029 of 10248
    wannaB

    wannaB New Member

    54
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    Sep 19, 2005
    I am thinking of upgrading my TiVo HD to a 1TB drive and using the drive out of my TiVo HD to upgrade my regular TiVo I have in the bedroom. Anyone see a problem doing this?
     
  10. Jun 20, 2009 #3030 of 10248
    moxie1617

    moxie1617 New Member

    345
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    Jan 4, 2004
    Chicago...
    Yes, the drive interfaces are different. The old Tivo has a parallel interface and the new Tivo's have a serial interface.
     
  11. Jun 20, 2009 #3031 of 10248
    wannaB

    wannaB New Member

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    Sep 19, 2005
    Wow - that's something pretty obvious I should have picked up. Thanks!
     
  12. Jun 20, 2009 #3032 of 10248
    vurbano

    vurbano New Member

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    Apr 20, 2004
    I followed the internal drive upgrade instructions and am shocked at how simple and fast it is. Upgraded 2 TivoHD units to 1 TB a piece. I used to extract programs from my hacked HR10-250 tivo and after using tivo desktop with the Tivo HD units I am also really impressed. Very slick.
     
  13. Jun 20, 2009 #3033 of 10248
    Albertos

    Albertos New Member

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    Jun 20, 2009
    I am also very impressed with TIVO. It is very fast.

    Thanks
     
  14. Jun 20, 2009 #3034 of 10248
    MPSAN

    MPSAN Active Member

    1,190
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    Jun 20, 2009
    Portland,...
    Hello Rich:

    Am I welcome too? :D

    This is my first post here, and I wanted to say hello to LO from the West Hills.

    I am getting my 3 TiVo HD units delivered on Thursday, but I will wait a Month or so before I upgrade at least one of them. I guess it may take that long for Comcast to get 3 M-Cards running anyway! I hope our area has M-Cards.Perhaps a 1TB drive will be <$90 by then.
     
  15. Jun 20, 2009 #3035 of 10248
    lynnalexandra

    lynnalexandra New Member

    107
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    Apr 26, 2009
    I thought I was all set to upgrade my internal Tivo drive and marry it to a 1TB external. I bought the hard drives, sata cable kits and antec enclosure. I'm getting hung up on something simple. I hooked up the original TiVo hard drive and the new (to be upgraded 1TB) hard drive via sata cable from the drives to the inside of my pc. But I don't know where to plug in the power cables? I see where to plug them into the Tivo hard drives - but have no idea where they go in my computer. Anyone have a way to help me? I've got Tivo's, pc's and bare drives strewn on my floor. I'm hoping not to leave them like this for long.

    If it matters, I have a Dell Inspiron 530, XP, single internal 500GB hard drive. I have illustrations of the computer - and have it opened up, but I can't figure out where this white-ish/clear plug goes (with 4 pins inside).

    I can't imagine that I unplug my computer's drive - since it wouldn't start and run winmfs without it.

    I truly think I could get the rest of this done pretty easily if I saw where to plug in the power cord.

    Thanks.
    Lynn.:confused:
     
  16. Jun 20, 2009 #3036 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
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    Jan 4, 2003
    Hi Lynn. Based on what I could quickly look up this should resemble your computer's power supply:

    [​IMG]

    According to the specs it has at least three, possibly four SATA power connectors. One should be attached to your computer's hard drive and one to a CD/DVD ROM drive and one or two are probably not connected to anything. You can use the two that aren't connected to your computer's hard drive to power your TiVo drives or if only one is free, temporarily disconnect the SATA power cable from the CD/DVD drive and connect it to one of your TiVo drives. The power connectors are the wider ones...the SATA cables are the smaller of the two.

    Make sure you have your computer's power cord unplugged when doing all of this to avoid any shorts. When you power your computer on the new hard drives should spin up. You can listen to them for clicking noises (the heads moving about or "seeking") or you can pick the drive up and move it about with your hand. If it's spinning it will be resistant to turning like a gyroscope.

    Hope that helps and happy upgrading!
     
  17. Jun 20, 2009 #3037 of 10248
    lynnalexandra

    lynnalexandra New Member

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    Apr 26, 2009
    Thanks, Rich. I did order the sata cable kits you recommended (and linked above). But I see no available Molex male connectors. In fact, I don't see any unavailable ones either. It seems as though the sata power cords inside the computer (from the dvd drive and hard drive of the pc) both have wires that run into a closed box (where the power cord gets plugged into from the outside). There doesn't appear to be access to the any male molex cables.

    There are 2 loose sata cables (on from the dvd drive and one from the hard drive) that are just lose in the pc. Is it possible to plug those sata power cables into the drives (and not use these molex to sata power adaptors)? I have no idea if I'll do damage by plugging these into the Tivo drives. The other possibility is to unplug the sata power cord from the dvd drive. That would give me two sata power plugs (both off the same power wires from the enclosed box in the pc). Should I unplug the dvd sata power cord and plug both sata power plugs into the 2 Tivo drives?

    I feel a little less stupid at least bc. my computer does not appear to have the male molex connectors - just the black sata connectors.

    Thanks.
    Lynn.
     
  18. Jun 20, 2009 #3038 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
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    Jan 4, 2003
    Hi Lynn. Sorry about that...see my edited note above. (You might have to refresh your browser or log out and back in to see the updated info.) I looked up the wrong (older) PC initially.

    Yes, you should be able to use the two loose SATA power connectors to run the TiVo drives.

    Sorry for the confusion.
     
  19. Jun 20, 2009 #3039 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
    2
    Jan 4, 2003
    This is a follow up to Husky's earlier post about a screaming deal he found on a brand new line of drives from Samsung, a 1TB "eco-green" hard drive from Newegg.com. After a coupon discount it cost $69.99 shipped. Hard to beat that price! It's a nice drive, two platter, 5400 RPM w/32MB cache. It's very quiet (22 bels idle and 28 bels seek) and runs very cool. Photo of my drive here. Spec sheet here. I thought I'd try it as an internal hard drive upgrade in our TiVo HD.

    Short version of my experiment...it didn&#8217;t work. :thumbsdown: Okay, here's the longer version.

    Plan: Pull the previously upgraded 1TB Western Digital WD10EVCS out of our TiVo HD and replace it with the new Samsung HD103SI. (There's no advantage to doing that, I just wanted to see if the new Sammy would work.) Then if all went well I'd use the WD as a computer backup drive or if not, slip it back into the TiVo and use the Sammy for a backup drive instead. As mentioned earlier, the TiVo HD is in a guest room so it's not "mission critical" and if it were to fail at some point I always keep the original TiVo drives as backups JIC.

    The drive arrived in about four days fully intact...albeit with Newegg's minimal packing consisting of an OEM clamshell, bubble wrap and foam peanuts. They certainly could do better, but this one (like other's I've purchased from them) survived the trip.

    I switched everything we have over to Apple a while back but I kept a PC that I built a few years ago for just this reason. I downloaded the latest version of winMFS. I brought the original TiVo HD hard drive out of retirement and connected it via a USB adapter and connected the Samsung directly to one of the PC's SATA connections on the motherboard. (photo). I ran winMFS and created a new backup. Then I used MFSCopy to copy everything (old recordings, OS, etc.) over to the Samsung.

    Once all was said and done I popped the new drive into TiVo, fired it up and kept my fingers crossed. I've done this many times now but waiting to see if it works seems to go on forever, kind of slo-mo. But...after an impatient wait...no love. The first time TiVo displayed the &#8220;Welcome. Powering up&#8221; screen and then almost immediately went to a gray screen. I rebooted it and it stayed on the Powering up screen forever. That means that the motherboard couldn&#8217;t communicate with the hard drive.

    I went back and tried using both the OEM and upgraded drive's image just to see if it would make any difference and got the same response&#8230;stuck on the &#8220;Powering up&#8221; screen. I swapped the inputs switched connections, etc. but it didn&#8217;t make any difference. Every time the result was the same...no go.

    I suspected there was a problem when I first installed the Samsung in the TiVo HD and fired it up because the drive ran several seek sequences and then silence. Normally the seek sequences continue until the unit is fully booted.

    To be sure the drive was not faulty I ran the Hitachi drive fitness diagnostics program on it. (Interestingly enough the drive is so new that Samsung&#8217;s own diagnostic program, Hutil, doesn&#8217;t work with this drive. :rolleyes: ) The Hitachi program recognized it immediately. I ran the quick and then advanced/extended tests and the drive came through with flying colors. All is not lost, it will become a backup drive.

    So bottom line, I can&#8217;t recommend the new Samsung HD103SI as an internal upgrade hard drive for the TiVo HD. No idea why, but it just didn&#8217;t work, period. That&#8217;s not to say it might not work in a Series3 but my little experiment says it might not/probably won&#8217;t work. It's possible that it might work as an eSATA drive, but I'll leave that for someone else to try.

    This is similar to what others have posted about disappointing results with some of Samsung's Spinpoint drives as well (although IIRC some have had success with them.)

    For my money (and time), I'd stay away from using Samsung drives with TiVo for now no matter how compelling the price.

    EDIT: The Sammy has been running fine as a computer backup drive for about three weeks now now...so it worked out in this case, just not as a TiVo drive.
     
  20. Jun 20, 2009 #3040 of 10248
    lynnalexandra

    lynnalexandra New Member

    107
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    Apr 26, 2009
    While you were responding, I decided to also call Dell. They weren't very knowledgeable but at least confirmed that any of those loose sata power connectors could be plugged into the hard drives. There are 3 available (if I unplug the dvd drive) - but the one in the dvd drie is too short (a couple of inches) to reach to one of the hard drives. One power connector just barely reached (with the Tivo drive sitting on the case and slightly tilted inward) - and one sata power connector coming out of the pc's hard drive.

    Anyway - it worked - or it is working. I made a truncated copy and now I"m copying from the original Tivo drive to the new internal tivo drive. Then I"ll do the external one.

    The instructions here and help from you, Rich, have been great - and clear. If my Dell had had the molex connectors, I wouldn't have skipped a beat. A few hours - but many lessons learned. (Installing a second internal hard drive for my pc and a firewire port are going to be a piece of cake now.)

    Thanks. I'll report back when all is finished.
    Lynn.
     

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