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Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by bkdtv, Oct 19, 2007.

  1. May 5, 2009 #2881 of 10248
    tannett

    tannett Long time reader....

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    Feb 8, 2007
    Cedar...
    Yeah, I just used the Plug n play to get them connected, but if I'd known then what I know now, I wouldn't have done it. Should have just upgraded the drive from day one. Its frustrating that trying to do things the "right" way and not void the warranty causes headaches later once you're ready to open up that case.

    I'm definately not that familiar with the internal workings of a drive, but if I try and mess it up, it won't hurt anything if I just decide to unpair the drives and use WinMFS to copy over the failed attempt on the new drive, will it? Right now, I have an unusable 1TB drive with everything copied to it, so I'd be willing to give it a shot.
     
  2. May 5, 2009 #2882 of 10248
    bicker

    bicker bUU

    10,382
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    Nov 9, 2003
    Georgia
    Except when it doesn't (i.e., "Error writing inode 1").

    Don't get me wrong. I'm sure everyone involved in this thread and MFSLive have done a great job. It is just isn't destined to be easy, eh?
     
  3. May 5, 2009 #2883 of 10248
    greg_burns

    greg_burns Now in HD

    6,384
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    May 21, 2004
    Slower...
    I know what you mean. ("Error Number 9 anyone?") :D
     
  4. May 5, 2009 #2884 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
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    Jan 4, 2003
    Good points. I've never run into any errors, so haven't had to deal with the frustration that must cause.
     
  5. May 6, 2009 #2885 of 10248
    bicker

    bicker bUU

    10,382
    43
    Nov 9, 2003
    Georgia
    And a message like "Cannot restore because there is a bad checksum in the backup file" (which is only my guess about what "Error writing inode 1") would be a bit better, though still frustrating, since there is (was) apparently no way to work past the problem.
     
  6. May 10, 2009 #2886 of 10248
    Teeps

    Teeps Active Member

    1,664
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    Aug 16, 2001
    Torrance,Cal...
    This is the story:

    - I have a Series3 with an eSATA drive attached.
    - The internal drive was failing and I wanted to keep all recordings, cable card settings etc.
    - I replaced the 250GB OEM drive in my Series3 with the same sized Seagate DB35 (Seagate DB35.4 ST3250310CS Hard Drive
    250GB - 7200rpm - Serial ATA/300 - Serial ATA - Internal)
    http://www.buy.com/prod/seagate-db3...00rpm-serial-ata-300/q/loc/101/207985291.html
    - Because I did not want to lose recordings, I used the Linux "dd" command to make a bit-for-bit copy of the original.

    "dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sdb" (W/O quotes.)
    This took about 5 hours to complete.

    NOTE: The "dd" command only worked (on my computer) when both drives were on the same channel, that is Primary Master =(sda)/Slave =(sdb) or Secondary Master/Slave .


    As in the past, when "dd" is running, there is no indication of progress, other than disk drive indicator on the computer flickering, and of course you can hear the drives clicking away.

    - Success: TiVo booted up as though nothing had changed, and best of all;
    all original recordings, cable card info, SP's etc. are intact.
     
  7. May 10, 2009 #2887 of 10248
    lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    Aug 31, 2003
    San...
    What? Do you have documentation for this? The dd command should work with any valid linux devices.

    Try:
    Code:
    watch iostat 1 2
    This will show the number of blocks (usually 512 bytes each) read and written on each drive both cumulative and per second.
     
  8. May 10, 2009 #2888 of 10248
    c3

    c3 TiVoholic

    3,067
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    Sep 8, 2000
    Silicon...
    For PATA, it's better to have the two drives on DIFFERENT channels. For SATA, each one is a separate channel. There is no master/slave for SATA.

    I think the default block size for dd is 512 bytes. If so, it would have been much faster to use a larger block size, such as 1MB, if there are no bad sectors. If you do have bad sectors, then you need to add "conv=noerror,sync".
     
  9. May 10, 2009 #2889 of 10248
    Teeps

    Teeps Active Member

    1,664
    4
    Aug 16, 2001
    Torrance,Cal...
    No. It was my observation. I wrote what worked for me. If it causes confusion, then petition the moderator to delete my post and any further conversation with regard to it.
    Or
    Feel free to make corrections as needed.
     
  10. May 11, 2009 #2890 of 10248
    lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

    6,924
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    Aug 31, 2003
    San...
    'Confirmed. The WD15EADS will hard boot, but will not soft boot when used as a primary drive in an S3 TiVo.
     
  11. May 11, 2009 #2891 of 10248
    lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

    6,924
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    Aug 31, 2003
    San...
    The dd command is a low level copy command. Technically, it's not even a Linux command, and as one can easily see its syntax does not follow Linux conventions. In any case, however, the dd command simply opens an input stream and copies it to an output stream. In general the only limitations are the source and target must be valid Linux device files, they must be available when requested, and the target must be writable. If you had trouble performing the copy when the two drives were on separate channels, I'm not sure why, but I'm quite certain it was not due to a limitation in the dd command.
     
  12. May 11, 2009 #2892 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
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    Jan 4, 2003
    That's too bad. It would have been a nice addition to the recommended drives.

    Thanks for being a guinea pig and for the feedback even if it isn't what was hoped for. :up:
     
  13. May 11, 2009 #2893 of 10248
    tannett

    tannett Long time reader....

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    0
    Feb 8, 2007
    Cedar...
    Does anyone know if there is a way to expand a drive after the fact if I used the dd command that Teeps mentioned? Could I copy my original 160GB TiVoHD drive to the 1TB drive and then expand it?

    My original intent was to do away with the esata drive, but if I can preserve all of my recordings, I'd go ahead and keep the expander attached to it if this would work.
     
  14. May 11, 2009 #2894 of 10248
    greg_burns

    greg_burns Now in HD

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    May 21, 2004
    Slower...
    I am going to vote no.

    I do believe you can "dd" your 160GB to a 1TB with and keep the external attached. You will only still be using 160GB of the 1TB. I do NOT believe you can then run "mfstool add -x /dev/sdb -r 4" (or whatever) and claim the extra space while still keeping the external married.
     
  15. May 11, 2009 #2895 of 10248
    Teeps

    Teeps Active Member

    1,664
    4
    Aug 16, 2001
    Torrance,Cal...
    Thanks for clearing that up.
    I know just enough about linux to be dangerous. I depend on known good command lines to get the job done.
    As is always my luck with this stuff, the hardware connection to my PC was just another problem to contend with.

    In retrospect, I should have written that "dd" did not work, in my system, with drives connected to sdb and sdd.
     
  16. May 11, 2009 #2896 of 10248
    tannett

    tannett Long time reader....

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    0
    Feb 8, 2007
    Cedar...
    That's what I figured... If it were that "easy", I'm sure others would have done it... I've been transferring as much as I can do my desktop harddrive and probably going to take the plunge and unmarry the external and upgrade this weekend. Hope it goes as smoothly as my Series 3 did a few months back!
     
  17. May 12, 2009 #2897 of 10248
    CaseyK24

    CaseyK24 Member

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    Apr 17, 2003
    A quick general question that might have been answered in the 97 pages but can't find it.

    When using WINMfs with both the new and old drive attached to preserve your recordings, if you have a full original 120GB drive with 20 Hours HD programs about how long will it take to copy all the data to the new HD? Assume an average case in speed on the computer and components. Just trying to get a general ballpark timeframe.

    Thanks,
    Casey
     
  18. May 12, 2009 #2898 of 10248
    greg_burns

    greg_burns Now in HD

    6,384
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    May 21, 2004
    Slower...
    When copying using linux dd command of my S3's 250GB drive it was reporting 60MB/s. Took 4235 seconds. ;)

    Also, I believe TivoHD has 160GB drive (120 Hours).
     
  19. May 13, 2009 #2899 of 10248
    delgadobb

    delgadobb Member

    108
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    Mar 6, 2004
    Las Vegas, NV
    As an old school Tivo upgrader from the days of MFSTools & MFSLive, I've been fence-sitting on getting my TivoHD & upgrading. I'm happy to report I'm waiting no more.

    After getting my TivoHD, I bought the Hitachi 0A38016 1TB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache drive from NewEgg when it was $70 AR.
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145233

    I finally got around to updating my TivoHD & it couldn't have been easier. Got the stock TivoHD activated (lifetime) & connected to Tivo several times to get the latest SW updates. Then I plugged the drives into a spare PC with Windows XP SP2, ran WinMFS, did the copy & supersized. MFSTools was useful if a bit cumbersome in its time; WinMFS was pretty easy once I got past the minimal interface.

    Voila! 157 HD hours, 1368 SD hours & one great picture even on standard definition. Menus & program scrolling are very quick, have others noticed this after a drive upgrade? Maybe it was this way all along & I just didn't pay enough attention.

    At any rate, so far the Hitachi seems to be working fine. I also did an upgrade with a WD 750 GB 'Green' drive, which is plan 'B' if I have problems with the Hitachi. Otherwise, it's probably going in the next Tivo HD.
     
  20. May 13, 2009 #2900 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
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    Jan 4, 2003
    Congrats, welcome to the club and enjoy!
     

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