1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by bkdtv, Oct 19, 2007.

  1. May 3, 2009 #2861 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
    2
    Jan 4, 2003
    Unfortunately I think what you're trying to do has been attempted without success. If you haven't done so already I'd say your best bet is to throw yourself at the mercy of Spike (the author of winMFS, etc.) over at the MFSLive Forum and see what he might have to say.

    It would be great to find out that it could be done so please come back and share if you're successful...or even if you're not...still good to know.
     
  2. May 3, 2009 #2862 of 10248
    tannett

    tannett Long time reader....

    24
    0
    Feb 8, 2007
    Cedar...
    Yeah, the place that first caught my attention was in the quickstart that talked about a 2-1 copy: http://www.mfslive.org/softwareguidep3.htm#s3dtod.

    There was actually a statement that confused me that said:

    Option 3.20 To copy everything from original capacity (250GB) internal drive and eSATA drive to bigger single drive and expand capacity. ... This option is built into WinMFS so give it a try.

    But from everywhere else, it says this isn't possible so I decided to rule this out first! The first thing I did was plug them both in SATA on the desktop and try that and I _was_ able to do the backup with no programs, but couldn't do the two to one copy of programs.

    Then, digging through articles, found the following that talked about it:

    http://www.mfslive.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1179
    http://www.mfslive.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1145
    http://www.mfslive.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1123&p=5710#p5710

    and the original source of a lot of this:
    http://www.************.com/forum/showthread.php?p=297557

    And, for those that don't know UNIX (like myself), this was the biggest help to generate the exact command you need to use: http://www.mfslive.org/cgen.php

    So, now I'm sitting here with my TiVo opened up, three hard drives and desperate to figure out a way to make this all work. I think I'll just put the original back in for now and do some more research and try again in a few weeks. *sigh*
     
  3. May 3, 2009 #2863 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
    2
    Jan 4, 2003
    Wow...that is some research and hard work...well done! Like Greg, I didn't know you could even get as far as you have! :up:

    Is it feasible, at least temporarily, to install one of the HDD's in your computer and transfer your recordings (if they're still available)? I know it's time consuming and not the ideal situation, but at least you'd be able to get back to square one. Once the new drive is installed in TiVo you could transfer them back. The downside is that you can't transfer copy-protected recordings, but otherwise might that be an option?
     
  4. May 3, 2009 #2864 of 10248
    tannett

    tannett Long time reader....

    24
    0
    Feb 8, 2007
    Cedar...
    Hi Rich... thanks. I had remembered someone talking about the 2 to 1 awhile back, so it just took some digging. I didn't think it was going to take my entire Saturday to try and figure it out though!

    I just put everything back to normal and everything is still on the drives, so at least I haven't lost anything yet.

    By transfer, do you mean via TiVoDesktop, or is there some way to hook the drive directly to the computer and transfer things much faster? The only problem with either of these is I don't have sufficent space to transfer everything on the drive, but could probably save a lot of it.

    What's amusing is that if this had happened on my Series 3 that I use to watch just general TV, I wouldn't have cared as much, but the THD is down in my theater and where I've stored all the movies that I've recorded over the years.

    Guess this is a lesson learned about the "easy" path of using a DVR expander vs. just should've upgraded it right away.
     
  5. May 3, 2009 #2865 of 10248
    chandler1818

    chandler1818 Member

    60
    0
    Sep 8, 2004
    I am really surprised how loud the expander is. Far louder than the S3; I can actually hear it across the room. I may actually take it back. But before I do that, is there anyway to minimize the sound?
     
  6. May 3, 2009 #2866 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
    2
    Jan 4, 2003
    I was thinking of TiVo Desktop or PyTiVo, etc. If you can connect your TiVo to your network via Ethernet it would cut down transfer times as compared to wireless, but still a bit of a pain.

    You mentioned having three HDD's? I was thinking that you could install one of them (not the replacement of course) in your desktop to add more space and transfer the recordings. Or when you said "three" did you mean your OEM, your Expander and your replacement? If so, that's not an option. Might be worth picking up another drive though. You could always use it as a computer backup drive or start building that NAS you've been thinking about. ;)

    In any case, best of luck and let us know how things work out.
     
  7. May 3, 2009 #2867 of 10248
    bkdtv

    bkdtv New Member

    7,902
    0
    Jan 9, 2003
    DC Metro Area
    If it is that loud, I think it may be defective. I couldn't hear my 1TB Expander over the TiVo.
     
  8. May 3, 2009 #2868 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
    2
    Jan 4, 2003
    Agreed, if it's much louder than TiVo it sounds like something may be wrong with it.
     
  9. May 3, 2009 #2869 of 10248
    Bierboy

    Bierboy Seasoned gas passer

    12,346
    0
    Jun 12, 2004
    Quad Sillies
    Which one do you have? I have the 500GB, and I can't hear it from 8 feet away. I agree with other posters that there's probably something wrong with it.
     
  10. May 4, 2009 #2870 of 10248
    chandler1818

    chandler1818 Member

    60
    0
    Sep 8, 2004
    the S3 is pretty much silent to me so any noise sounds like a lot to me. I think I might just need to get used to it. Is it quieter on its side or should I stand it up?
     
  11. May 4, 2009 #2871 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
    2
    Jan 4, 2003
    What kind of noise is it making? Clicking, humming...??

    It shouldn't make any difference if it's placed vertically or horizontally. The only thing you might run into are the harmonics generated though the surface it's on. If it helps you can try isolating it by setting it on some sound absorbent material like a mouse pad.

    Still...it shouldn't really be making any appreciable noise. If it is it's not likely to get better; could get worse and if it fails you'll lose all of the recordings made since it was installed.
     
  12. May 5, 2009 #2872 of 10248
    lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

    6,924
    0
    Aug 31, 2003
    San...
    I really don't know why it would be "scary". It's true one may not be guaranteed success first try by any stretch of the imagination, but considering what is at risk is a few hours of tinkering, possibly a few lost TV shows, and worst case having to shell out $20 for a copy of InstantCake, the risk is hardly daunting. With the huge volume of sometimes conflicting and often cryptic information on the matter, I can certainly understand one's being confused and uncertain how best to proceed, but to my mind even for a neophyte the cost of a mistake is too low to rise to the level of being "scary". Of course, it's always possible one might drop a hard drive, or forget to unplug the TiVo and drop a Torx driver on the live motherboard, sending up sparks and flames, but ordinary precautions can almost completely eliminate such problems.
     
  13. May 5, 2009 #2873 of 10248
    lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

    6,924
    0
    Aug 31, 2003
    San...
    Whether this is possible (at this time) or not depends on how the TiVo was expanded. If the expansion was on the original S3 using the KickStart method, or on either a THD or S3 using MFS_Live or WinMFS, then copying from two married drives to one is possible with some limitations. If the external drive was married using TiVo's built-in automated expansion routine, then you are out of luck as far as 2 => 1 copying is concerned at this time.

    Edit:
    I believe you said you are a software developer. If you are intimately familiar with drive partitions at the byte level and are comfortable with manipulating them by hand (not using fdisk or similar utilities, but using dd), you may be able to handle a manual copy and expansion. You'll need to boot in to a recent Linux distro and obtain a copy of tivopart. Spike and Jamie can probably point you in the right direction as far as understanding what needs to be copied and how. I would not recommend attempting this unless you are very familiar with partitioning structures at the hardware level.
     
  14. May 5, 2009 #2874 of 10248
    bicker

    bicker bUU

    10,382
    43
    Nov 9, 2003
    Georgia
    And I think that is really the source of the problems: Folks who know and understand this stuff very well failing to understand how the vast majority of folks don't.

    Well, be fair: "Error writing inode 1" isn't very descriptive. Beyond that, the specter of blowing out the chips on the motherboard due to static electricity is something that most normal people don't have much experience with. Whenever I've been in a context where electronic devices were being worked on, there were grounded work-benches, anti-static mats, and heel or wrist straps. I'm not comfortable with doing such work without such protections in place, and I suspect most folks who don't even have the exposure I have had would be even less aware of what could go wrong.
     
  15. May 5, 2009 #2875 of 10248
    beobuff

    beobuff Member

    42
    0
    Feb 6, 2009
    SEMA
    Gentlemen: FWIIW, I had the same problem with my original expander drive, which I kept for several weeks but eventually swapped out. It seemed to get slightly quieter after being run in for a few weeks, but still seemed way too noisy to me, so I had the manufacturer replace it. The replacement turned out to be a factory refurb unit, judging by a few minor nicks and dings on the case, but it is at least a good 50% quieter than the original. It is still not exactly silent and its noise covers completely the almost inaudible sound of the Tivo HD drive.
     
  16. May 5, 2009 #2876 of 10248
    Bierboy

    Bierboy Seasoned gas passer

    12,346
    0
    Jun 12, 2004
    Quad Sillies
    I still maintain the chandler1818's expander is defective. Mine has been virtually silent from the day I first plugged it in.
     
  17. May 5, 2009 #2877 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
    2
    Jan 4, 2003
    I have to agree that performing any upgrade (TiVo, automobile, computer, networks, servers :eek:, etc.) is if not scary, somewhat unnerving at minimum. I end up enjoying the fruits of my labor afterward but the "time of trial" is always unsettling.

    Ever since upgrading my S1 way back when I've always been nervous throughout the procedure, worried that I might miss a step, etc. I guess I don't worry about losing programs or any of that, I'm just afraid it won't work (possibly ever again) when I'm finished. My biggest fear was/is what to do if it doesn't work...how do I fix it, where do I turn (other than starting all over again)? Borking a working machine isn't something anyone wants to deal with.

    Back in the Hinsdale upgrade days I missed all sorts of steps and spent many late night hours tinkering with code that made little sense at the time trying to get it right. I was always successful because I have a thing about not letting inanimate objects alone until they are doing what they're supposed to be doing. But I can certainly empathize with the tremors one feels during the journey from contemplation to success.

    That said, Spike (MFSLive.org) has done an unbelievable job putting together a program (winMFS - dare I call it simple?) that just works if you follow the directions. As much as I detest PC's I keep one active if for nothing else...to complete my next TiVo upgrade. Kudos too to bkdtv for capturing almost everything anyone could want to know about upgrading their TiVo on the first post. :up: :up: :up:

    So when any of us say that it's "easy" to upgrade a TiVo the caveat should be, it's not "plug and pray" (except for the approved WD My DVR Expander), but if you're comfortable adding a new hard drive to a computer, it is in fact fairly easy. Even if you're a first-timer, the instructions are clear and it's a good Saturday afternoon learning experience with great rewards.

    It's that moment that you plug TiVo back in, sit on the couch and wait for it to fire up properly...that's the worst part for me. It seems to take at least three times as long as normal (it really doesn't) and holding my breath for that long is probably not healthy. ;) But when TiVo starts down that yellow slide...life is good again...even better.

    Wow, that was cathartic! Okay, bring on the next models! I'm ready to upgrade! :D
     
  18. May 5, 2009 #2878 of 10248
    drhankz

    drhankz New Member

    306
    0
    Jan 14, 2008
    Salem NH
    :up:I agree with Rich - The procedures are so well documented anyone should be able to Happily Upgrade their TiVo [​IMG]
     
  19. May 5, 2009 #2879 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
    2
    Jan 4, 2003
    ...That's dangerous, slippery slope territory my friend. Be afraid...be very afraid! ;)
     
  20. May 5, 2009 #2880 of 10248
    drhankz

    drhankz New Member

    306
    0
    Jan 14, 2008
    Salem NH
    YOUR POST Did a great job articulating the state of the upgrade
    info and commended all the folks who helped get us to this stage.

    Who can disagree with that :p
     

Share This Page