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Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by bkdtv, Oct 19, 2007.

  1. Mar 17, 2009 #2641 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
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    Jan 4, 2003
    It was a strange time indeed...no one had a clue what they were or were used for. "That won't work with a TiVo." And before that when the KS62 was made public. "What's a kickstart...you got a TiVo bike or something?" The good old days. ;)
     
  2. Mar 17, 2009 #2642 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
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    Jan 4, 2003
    +1 :up:
     
  3. Mar 17, 2009 #2643 of 10248
    alyssa

    alyssa Active Member

    1,638
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    Dec 7, 2003
    The...
    Spikes response to an ETA on the transfer of both eSATA & internal data to a new drive was

    "Maybe sometime this year or next" 12.07.08
     
  4. Mar 18, 2009 #2644 of 10248
    Yuterald

    Yuterald New Member

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    Jan 20, 2002
    NashVegas, USA
    Ok - i've conducted "tests" on buying the WD bare drive, putting it into an external case and I bought (the same time) the "green" fantom drive. Connected both via USB and streamed shows from the PC to the HDTIvo. The WD drive in enclosure constantly stopped and started while the fantom never hung up and, while continuously watching it, got 'ahead' in downloading the program while watching it 'live'. The WD, when xfring and selecting to start watching it right away would 'pause' at first, I waited @2 seconds and pressed play where it'd play for about 20 seconds and freeze again. To rule out USB ports I swapped each from their current input to the other: same results. The last thing to test is the show that i'm 'streaming' - the ones I tested from the WD were TIVO files while on the fantom they were .mpg. I'll let you know what I find out. If it remains 'as-is' I'm only buying fantom drives as external storage to stream to my Tivo!
     
  5. Mar 18, 2009 #2645 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
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    Jan 4, 2003
    Interesting info. Particularly since the Fantom uses WD HDD's. Can you give us the drive model numbers of both? (This is easy to determine by looking at the System Information screen when the drive is connected.)

    Also can you please let us know which external enclosure you're using? It would seem more likely that it has something to do with the external enclosure but it's certainly possible the difference in the drives might be important in this case. Let us know more details when available. :up:
     
  6. Mar 19, 2009 #2646 of 10248
    Yuterald

    Yuterald New Member

    90
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    Jan 20, 2002
    NashVegas, USA
    Ok all, part of the 'new external HD's' was moving 2 other external HDs from another computer to the one I mainly use and that included moving other USB devices. So I have 4 external HD's hooked up (2 older ones are for photos and music) and i hooked up our USB charger for our two Apple Shuffle's. I dropped my shuffle in to charge it and it wouldn't charge and it ended up 'freezing' and 'crashing' my computer. I was able to get it back up and running (and this happened before on another computer where it ended up frying all my USB ports and Dell ended up giving me a new computer since they could not fix it). Why the long story? Welllll this a.m. I remembered I did not verify that shuffle didn't fry my USB ports so I fired up My Computer and began getting errors that drive J: and then the other new drive had data "lost" due to a network or computer error and stated to save it elsewhere! I opened up both externals and except for one file (The Dark Knight) EVERY file is 'gone'! I rebooted my PC but had to leave for work so I'll check it tonight to see if it 'finds' any of the files. What makes it even more frustrating is the drives are still showing that space 'used'. I lost programs xferd from my Tivo that I wanted to keep so I'm mad about that. (BTW: using pyTivo). The files in my Shared Tivo Folder on my C drive were fine though. I dont' know if it was the shuffle USB that caused this or not but if it doesn't 'find' the files when i'm home tonight i'll have to reformat them to regain that 'used' space that's not showing any files on it. And I'll also post what HD is in the Fantom and what enclosure I have for the WD drive.
     
  7. Mar 23, 2009 #2647 of 10248
    MikeAndrews

    MikeAndrews Registered abuser

    14,222
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    Jan 17, 2002
    Northern...
    Me. :confused: I just got 2 WD15EADS, intending to put one internal to the Series 3 that already has the 1TB Hitachi on an MX-1 external.

    Is there reason to think the 1.5TB WD won't work because the WD10EADS doesn't(?)?

    *sigh*

    I was going to add one to my PC. I'd hate to think I'd have two for that and have go buy another drive for the TiVo.
     
  8. Mar 23, 2009 #2648 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
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    Jan 4, 2003
    Hmmmm. It seems likely that the same soft reboot issue would raise its ugly head with the 1.5TB version of that drive, but without trying it's really an unknown.

    The other issue is that IIRC you'd be going over the 2.2TB TiVo limit using a 1.5TB internal and 1TB external. Not sure if it would still work but only show 2.2TB's or not. AFAIK this is unexplored territory to a great extent but IIRC some folks have tried it. You might want to check w/Spike on the MFSlive.org forum.

    That wasn't too helpful was it? :( But I'd sure be interested in knowing how things turn out. TIA for being a pioneer! :up:
     
  9. Mar 23, 2009 #2649 of 10248
    MikeAndrews

    MikeAndrews Registered abuser

    14,222
    1
    Jan 17, 2002
    Northern...
    #1 One main reason I bought the WD (I was a Seagate believer like you) was because you had one (never mind those pesky slight differences in model numbers. It looked close. :eek: ), the second was good reviews on the 10 vs Seagate's recent firmware disaster and third was the "green" power saving. I'm wondering why my electric bill is creeping up.

    #2 I was willing to live with losing a little due to the 2.2 limit. I'm wondering where hyped 1000x1000MB meets real GB in that. I guess I could always downgrade replace the 1.5"TB "to a 1"TB".

    I'm gonna take a stab. You'll hear soon.
     
  10. Mar 23, 2009 #2650 of 10248
    Yuterald

    Yuterald New Member

    90
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    Jan 20, 2002
    NashVegas, USA
    Ok - so it turns out my ipod suffle (also moved from one PC to the same one w/the new HDs) fried my USB ports. So I moved the HDs (never plugging in the ipod shuffle dock again) to a third PC and now I can't get pytivo to let me view the files from one of the HD's. Thus my lack of updated information. The one that does let me stream (from time to time when it 'feels' like it) has delay issues. This PC (like the other 2) are directly plugged into the router (in addition to the HDTivo I was testing). Frustrated - very frustrated and 2 more Fantom's should be delivered anyday.
    PS - that system info screen is for the internal HD to the Tivo - not the external ones attached to my PC (unless i'm missing something which is possible!)
     
  11. Mar 23, 2009 #2651 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
    2
    Jan 4, 2003
    Wow! What a hassle...but it sounds like you're getting it sorted out now. Phew.

    BTW, the System Info screen actually shows the hard drive model number of the eSATA drive (only) connected directly to TiVo.

    Keep us posted!
     
  12. Mar 23, 2009 #2652 of 10248
    Yuterald

    Yuterald New Member

    90
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    Jan 20, 2002
    NashVegas, USA
    I'm at the point where I"m going to uninstall pytivo and re-install it. If it continues to not work/function - i'll have no choice but to not use it and just have a ginormous list of DVDs by title to bring up using TiVo Desktop. I've tried everything I know
     
  13. Mar 24, 2009 #2653 of 10248
    jlib

    jlib Lean Forward

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    Nov 21, 2002
    Carmel...
    I remember at the time that I thought it odd they would but a EVCS in the Fantom (intended for PC expansion) . Don't worry, no harm done. They are functionally equivalent from the perspective of the TiVo and are equally durable. The only issue is that one should test the default AAM acoustic setting on the EAVS and adjust down to 128 (the default for the EVCS) if higher.

    WD 1TB Green Power Drives used in Tivo upgrades:

    EAVS (8 MB cache, manually set AAM)
    EACS (16 MB cache, manually set AAM)
    EADS (32 MB cache, manually set AAM)
    EVVS (8 MB cache, pre-set AAM, unused ATA-7 streaming)
    EVCS (16 MB cache, pre-set AAM, unused ATA-7 streaming)
    EVDS (32 MB cache, pre-set AAM, unused ATA-7 streaming)

    Note that more than 8 MB cache offers no performance advantage (the TiVo is an extremely unchallenging application). The above drives are functionally equivalent as far as performance, quality and durability. So, save for the old S3 soft reboot issue, you can safely shop on price for any of the above.
     
  14. Mar 25, 2009 #2654 of 10248
    bdj470

    bdj470 New Member

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    Sep 19, 2004
    I have a Tivo Hd (not an XL). I also have the Western Digital Expander drive. When using the Expander drive my Tivo will freeze up every now and then. So much to the point where I had to disconnect the Expander drive to get any shows to record.

    Is there a fix that I can do to help fix this problem? Since disconnecting the Expander drive I have not had a issue of my Tivo HD freezing up.
     
  15. Mar 26, 2009 #2655 of 10248
    beobuff

    beobuff Member

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    Feb 6, 2009
    SEMA
    The eSATA cable supplied by WD is a loose fit to the jacks on the Tivo and the WD drive; it often causes occasional disconnections. You might first try reversing the cable, which is what worked for me. If that doesn't produce better results, replace the cable with one that provides a snugger fit. Or try padding the plugs with a tiny piece of tape placed where it won't obstruct the electrical connections.
     
  16. Mar 27, 2009 #2656 of 10248
    keltraine

    keltraine New Member

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    Oct 8, 2008
    Hey guys, just wanted to update the thread for anyone else wondering the following:

    Right before jlib posted the list of WD HDs (and indicated that they're basically equivalent), I was really torn b/w getting the 10EVCS and the 10EADS for my TivoHD (since the EVCS was recommended HD on the FAQ, but it seemed a little old/out-of-date and the EADS had some *nice* new specs) and so I msg'ed Rich Adams asking what he would do (WWRAD?) and he was kind enough to respond quickly and indicated that the EVCS should be fine, and that it's what he's using in his series3.

    So thanks again to everyone who contributes and helps out folks, and an "especial" thanks to Rich for all his posts and comments on this thread and the forum--I'm sure it's appreciated by all the people like me who are wondering what to do!
     
  17. Mar 27, 2009 #2657 of 10248
    keltraine

    keltraine New Member

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    Oct 8, 2008
    Ahh, and just so it's here in this thread (to reduce the amount of time others might spend on it) here's my reply to him and some info/links on the various HDs:

    Thanks for the quick reply and your suggestion is the conclusion I was coming to too. Fwiw, I did find the Tom's HW articles on the two different WD Green Power lines (i.e. the WD10EACS vs the WD10EADS) and it basically says that the EADS is much better performing overall than the EACS (probably mainly due to the increased areal density; reducing from 4 to 3 platters), see:

    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/green-terabyte-1tb,2078-9.html

    but that was more focused on whether or not it was good enough for use in a desktop...and I'd personally get a Caviar Black in that case for the best perf and since it seems reliable enough (based on 600+ or so review on Newegg, etc)!

    And here's the article on the first generation of them in case you wanted to check it out:

    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/wd-caviar-gp,1703.html

    But in any case, they didn't really have much info on the EVCS/AV line on Tom's; all that I found that mentioned it was:

    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/energy-disk-drive,1944-4.html

    So knowing that the EVCS was designed for DVRs I think that's what I will go with, since the improvements on the EADS (increased areal density/perf and more cache) probably won't make a diff on the Tivo!
     
  18. Mar 27, 2009 #2658 of 10248
    keltraine

    keltraine New Member

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    Oct 8, 2008
    One minor comment about the sticky upgrade thread (and thus a possible improvement):

    When I first read Section 5, #17, point 9 where it says "and only connect the original Tivo drive", it threw me for a minute as I was trying to figure out how to get WinMFS to run if the Tivo drive was the only one connected to the PC...but I quickly figured out that wouldn't be possible and that I'd just read it wrong!

    *Very* minor, but thought I'd mention it to (in case someone else doesn't quite get it and gets confused or asks about it). Since it's very important to be careful with these kinds of procedures, I was trying to interpret everything literally, but in this case, you can take it *too* literally apparently! :p
     
  19. Mar 27, 2009 #2659 of 10248
    keltraine

    keltraine New Member

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    Oct 8, 2008
    One question about the actual upgrade procedure (and maybe another possible improvement):

    Why does Section 5, #17, method A, point 9 say that you have to shut off your computer to connect the Tivo hard drive to it (the same with method A, point 13 when you remove it)? Is it just being cautious/safe since there are a lot of people who might not know how to deal with ejecting HDs, or is there a reason to do it that way?

    What I mean is, I already have two external USB enclosures with 500 GB HDs in them; you can always safely remove USB devices after you stop them with the "Safely Remove Hardware" icon in the systray in Windows, which lets you basically hot swap/plug them even when the computer is on--so I should just be able to do this whole process if I did that w/o worrying about powering my PC off/on right (which would speed up the whole thing a lot, no)?!

    Or is there some reason I would need to power my PC off/on as per the steps b/c of what WinMFS is doing or something like that? If not, is it as I surmised above and it'd be too hard to explain "well if you have an external USB case you can just do it w/o powering off your PC by stopping and safely ejecting the HD" b/c then the people with eSATA would think they could do the same thing and possibly have issues?

    B/c while eSATA *is* hot-pluggable (letting you disconnect an eSATA device while the host device stays on), apparently it depends on if the chipset supports that as per: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/244782-32-esata-plug, and is it too dangerous to say you can do it most of the time with eSATA if your chipset supports it, and then have one person have issues b/c they didn't realize to check for support for that first, so you write the FAQ for the safest method/lowest common denominator possible?

    Hmm, if not for the eSATA hot-plug issue dependent on the chipset, the whole FAQ could be updated to eliminate the whole powering off/on of PCs, which would speed things up a lot! I think it'd be much easier that way! Thoughts?
     
  20. Mar 27, 2009 #2660 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
    2
    Jan 4, 2003
    Aw shucks. [Kicking instep]. :D

    Seriously, bkdtv and Spike deserve all of the credit. The rest of us just follow in their very long shadows. ;)
     

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