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Does anyone use a roamio (or a mini) with a switch?

Discussion in 'TiVo Roamio DVRs' started by 2004raptor, May 4, 2014.

  1. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Cox Cable...
    Those are some awesome switches! I have one of the GS108Tv2 ones.

    Both of the switches you list honor priority/QoS and can assign priority/QoS. I just wanted to point that out, since you didn't. ;)
     
  2. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Cox Cable...
    You do realize that software can assign and use priority and QoS, independent of the hardware, right?

    You do realize that certain traffic can be detected at the router as streaming service traffic, or VoIP traffic, and automatically assigned priority, right?

    Apparently not, on either count...

    Before you come back with more "TiVo is so unsophisticated, it can't possibly be helped by any of these things" replies, how about reading up on the many ways network traffic can be prioritized, without you even knowing it is happening...

    Hypothetically (in reality, as well), a device that has no means of using network QoS or priority assigning, can still benefit, when low-priority traffic is assigned a low priority (like background traffic, and most PC-related traffic).
     
  3. eboydog

    eboydog Just TiVo'ing.....

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    Oh course a higher quality switch can perform port based QOS however most residential switches don't come close in being able to due such due to low quality port forwarding speeds and the majority of such switch owners wouldn't know how to confugure such if their switch support such.

    Tivo device at this time do not include the native QOS priority queuing in their protocol stack, that has nothing to do with hardware rather than the drivers written into the interface Tivo uses.

    Yes if one wished to artificially preform port protocol priority forwarding with their TiVo, they could, however the Tivo protocol stack has no provisions for such in the manner that it's currently implemented. YES, an advanced ethernet switch might be able to do such but what is the purpose on a small residential home network that has on average less than 20 nodes? My issue is at hand isn't your knowledge of networking but the idiotic stance Tivo support makes when they state "Tivo doesn't support switches" when such is not true, the real fact is that data networking of Tivo devices is something of a afterthought and low support priority for Tivo rather than being a much more important task that desperately needs to be improved.

    The issue of doing traffic profiling and prioritization is helpful on large multi node mixed IP networks that have thousands of nodes all competing for certain limits resources. A average home network with 3 TiVo's, 2 Pc's and few wireless clients doesn't fall under the category of needing such as any traffic priority established is lost once your local network data hit the single interface into your isp's Internet connection.
     
  4. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Cox Cable...
    You missed a part I added:

    All I can say, but can't prove, is that my home networking experience (including my TiVo experience) has been greatly improved, since my third round of changing my switches.

    I started out with Airlink 100Mbit - seemed OK, but needed more speed.
    I switched to Airlink 1Gbit - Power supplies burned out after a few years.
    I switched to Trendnet - Fry's had them cheap, two died within a year, replaced them.
    I ended with Netgear - Best results and experience, hands-down.

    The router has always been a Netgear WNDR3800, running Netgear's software. Very TiVo friendly, with TiVo-specific functions/capabilities.

    I'm about to replace the router with a Netgear Centria N900 w/3TB NAS internal storage, DLNA, and automatic backup capability.

    I'm a bit nervous, as the reviews on these routers went completely negative once I bought mine, and they are now at "fire-sale" pricing...
     
  5. 2004raptor

    2004raptor time to emancipate

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    GA
    I may try and borrow a managed switch to see what results I get. I assume you changed some settings, would you mind sharing them with me so I'll know where to start?


    Interesting you say that. My AP is a netgear N900. When my roamio was connected straight to it and my mini was connected straight to the linksys, the mini could see the shows on the roamio but errored if you tried to play them or watch live tv.

    I keep saying I should change it from a AP back to a router (but still connected to my Linksys) to see if that works.

    I'm just kinda tired of plugging/unplugging/rebooting.
     
  6. jmbach

    jmbach der Neuerer

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    Not sure about the settings when using the N900 as an AP, but make sure you turn off any firewall associated filters like content filtering, stateful inspection, etc. Some of the security features might be applied on the Lan side causing some communication problems.
     
  7. aridon

    aridon Member

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    Didn't read the whole thread but the trick with switches is making sure the items you want networked are on the same sub net.

    Everything you want to talk to each other needs to be connected to the same box or router or they will be in different ip subnets. If you connect the switch to a router the items on the switch likely will not see the items in the router and vice versa.
     
  8. 2004raptor

    2004raptor time to emancipate

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    I have it working as an AP now. I use to (well before I had the roamio or min) had it working as a router that was connected to my other router. It had dhcp off, etc.

    I was just thinking out loud that I wonder if I turned off AP mode and reset it, would things have worked.
     
  9. JDSunny46

    JDSunny46 New Member

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    I don't know how TiVo can "not support" switches. No one in their right mind is going to use their TiVo plugged directly into their high speed modem. Of COURSE you have a switch, either embedded into your router or separate.

    My assumption is that the "typical" install is a Tivo plugged in via ethernet to a router with a built in switch. Unless you have MoCa. But MoCa doesn't help you if you want to stream to your wireless device.

    :rolleyes: not supporting switches. Psh.

    Incidentally, I run a netgear FVS318N router with built in switch.... works fine for in house and out of home streaming on my iphone. I only have the one tivo, so I dunno about how it would work with another tivo streaming.
     
  10. midas

    midas I heard that

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    Montgomery,...
    Just an FYI to anyone buying one of these Netgear switches. There are rebates available for purchases through June 30th. Hopefully this link to the form works.
     
  11. avmike

    avmike Member

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    I got tired of AC adapters dying on my cheap D-link gigabit switches (would always happen while I was out of town...).

    I switched all my switches over to Dell Powerconnect 2816's picked up for $79 on ebay. They are fanless, web-managed with QoS, with integrated power supplies. They have been rock solid.
     
  12. DeltaOne

    DeltaOne Mount Airy, MD

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    "Not support" means "won't help trouble-shoot."

    This seems reasonable to me. We can't expect TiVo to help with problems that may be caused by another companies hardware.
     
  13. twylie

    twylie New Member

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    I've also had good luck with the Dell 27XX and 28XX series managed switches. Currently using a 2724 in my main wiring closet, 2816 in a Home Theater, 2708 in an office. I also have a trendnet and Netgear 5 and 8 port GigE that work well, but the management features of the Dell stuff is a nice bonus for the money.
     
  14. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    Northern...
    I've been using the Dlink GigE switches for many years. I used a dozen of the older versions years ago and I've been using fifteen of the newer versions for several years. I've never had a power supply die. Although all my switches and any other electronics are on UPSs. But in my experience Dlink has been rock solid.

    Prior to the Dlinks, around eight years ago I used around half a dozen netgear GigE switches, but I switched to the Dlink. And prior to the Netgear switches I used Linksys GigE switches. So in the eleven or twele years I've used over three dozen GigE switches at home. I've yet to have a power supply die in any of them. But the Linksys switches were the worst. But that was their first model consumer GigE siwtch. And it needed a fan inside to keeps things cool so it made a bunch of noise.
     
  15. slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

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    Yep, this is the point he's missing, or he had some really bad setup that he 'fixed' by getting new switches. Priority forwarding is irrelevant for even a cheap GigE setup in 99.99% of residential use.
     
  16. CrispyCritter

    CrispyCritter Purple Ribbon Wearer

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    North...
    I would agree, though I wouldn't go quite that far. It depends much more strongly on applications than hardware or network complexity. For instance, somebody who does a lot with P2P/torrents may have need for either priority forwarding or some other control mechanism.

    I've got a more complicated home network than most (5 routers) and don't see a need for priority forwarding - I have 900 mbps throughput when and where I need it.
     
  17. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    Northern...
    And I use one router with several APs and fifteen unmanaged switches. I can also get 900mbps+ throughput when and where I need it. The only thing slowing me down is the gigabit connections since my pc's could transfer several times faster if they weren't limited by the slower GigE connections.
     
  18. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Cox Cable...
    I tend to agree. But, the translation shouldn't be our burden. It should be given to us in the correct form. It should also be reported, exactly as we were told, when we post what we were told on here. Not all of this always happens, all of the time.

    However, the support-bots at TiVo's outsourced call center are often only smart enough to repeat computer-generated responses. I have no doubt in my mind that people get told "Sorry, we don't support switches".

    I also have no doubt in my mind that even if people were told "Sorry, we don't provide support for switches", those two words could go unheard, or would just not show up in what gets reported here as what they were told.

    Given the kind of support consumers get these days, from nearly any company, I wouldn't be at all surprised at anything, no matter how ridiculous, that a person might be told by a support call center...
     
  19. Ieolus

    Ieolus New Member

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    I have my Roamio Pro attached to an Ethernet over Powerline adapter, which feeds to a gigabit switch, then into my router. My minis are connected via MoCA only.
     
  20. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Cox Cable...
    I give up on trying to help when it comes to switches, when it comes to QoS/Priority matters. I'll try to make this my final post on the matter.

    Focusing on quality, rather than raw speed, helped me a lot. If I had some bad setup, or bad cables, which does happen, now my networking equipment has the ability to tell me that I do (which didn't come with "cheap" low-end equipment). Even though it does have that ability, it has all been changed, or re-configured, multiple times, including ALL the cabling.

    I'll point-out that I've had more equipment, than I've listed so far. I just chose to limit going back as far as my first reliable Gbit router w/wireless, which I still have, still in use.

    Yes, all my networking equipment is on UPS backup. That seems to be another bragging-right amongst the "elite", so I may as well throw it out there. It seems like I burn-out more power supplies since I went this route, but I might as well brag about it...

    It never ceases to amaze me, that help-oriented threads, where people are asking for help, or purchase advice, get overrun by "experts", some of which do nothing but brag about the top speeds they achieve, and how everything is on UPS backup. That's great. I could even be happy for you, if you stopped bragging long enough to say how you got there.

    Such "experts" should know that speed isn't everything. VoIP is a great example of a network stream that requires very little speed (VERY, VERY, VERY, little), yet will work terribly if the latency isn't kept to a minimum.

    What's VoIP have to do with anything? Besides becoming more widespread in home use, things like Netflix and other streaming services also can be disrupted by latency.

    Since all the experts are here, with their perfectly distributed wired and wireless networks, limited only by industry standards, I guess there's no need for my input.

    Last words on QoS/Priority are: Latency and overhead STILL MATTER. As raw speed increases, VERY often does LATENCY and overhead. Those who disagree with this should spend less time here, and go fix all the Wiki pages that say these things, and help re-draft the standards that also say so. Maybe you could also submit your network configurations as the cure to this pesky issue. Don't forget to tell speedtest.net that their pingtest.net site is irrelevent, due to raw speed. Good luck with that.

    Sorry for the explosion. This is what happens when I hold-back and try to just play nice. I'm still trying to help, where I can, when I can.

    I'm also so sick of there always having to be 4x more posts per thread, due to "I don't have that problem" posts. The last thing anybody looking for help wants to hear is "I don't have that problem", followed by how great everything works for somebody else. While near-perfection does spontaneously happen, it's not the normal experience for everybody. Those who didn't get it out-of-box, as-is, don't benefit from bragging rights posts.

    I'm not mad at the majority of people. I'm not slinging poo, and then running away. I'll still be here to see the inevitable fallout, when I go nuclear.
     

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