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Different type of "reboot" problem!

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by MPSAN, Feb 8, 2013.

  1. MPSAN

    MPSAN Active Member

    1,193
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    Jun 20, 2009
    Portland,...
    OK, I will try to do this tomorrow.
    BTW, I have been a Ham Radio Operator for 55+ years and am used to dealing with RF and voltages in the multi KV range.
     
  2. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    What are the odds the next person searching this site for helpful threads will be?
     
  3. MPSAN

    MPSAN Active Member

    1,193
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    Jun 20, 2009
    Portland,...
    Not very high. I hope the CAPS are fine as I am still surprised that this does not seem too random.

    Is there an uncorrectable count that can cause the THD to reboot?
     
  4. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    If the 'lytics need replacing, better it happen to you who can do it for $10 in parts and have enough left over for a soda than to someone who doesn't know which end of a soldering iron to hold.

    The only uncorrectable count of whom I am aware is A. Lucard.

    (in other words, I have no idea what you meant by that sentence)
     
  5. MPSAN

    MPSAN Active Member

    1,193
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    Jun 20, 2009
    Portland,...
    Well, I unplugged the THD and am ready to measure the voltage(s). The uncorrectable count is shown on each tuner when you do DVR Diags an look for the OOB.

    P.S. The proper end of the Soldering iron can be learned after 1 error!
     
  6. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    Some of us wind up taking refresher courses.

    :D
     
  7. MPSAN

    MPSAN Active Member

    1,193
    1
    Jun 20, 2009
    Portland,...
    OK, this just in!

    I have TCD652160.

    PS is SPWR 00011 000 RevB2

    NO bulging caps...not even the slightest. I looked at all of them but especially C501, C502, C701 and C504.

    Voltages...or is that E is as follows.

    With No HDD

    5V measures 4.87 V
    3.3V measures 3.33 V
    12V measures 12.32 V

    With HDD and TIVO rebooted and running...

    5V measures 4.91 V
    3.3V measures 3.33 V
    12V measures 12.19 V

    Now I have it on the UPS. I believe the PS is good. My next step is to leave it alone and see if it reboots on the UPS. If so, I can put the original HDD back in (I have the WD10EARS in there now) and see what happens. I will need a software update and season passes redone, but I only have 2 shows left now on the 1T drive, so it would be a good time to see if it is the HDD. If so, I can use UBCD to retest the 1T drive and see if that helps. Perhaps write all zero's anyway. I hope going back to the original HDD will not make the MCard mess up!
     
  8. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    If you've got a 'scope you could check for excess ripple on the 5 and/or 12, but that PS is probably good, which means the problem is going to be harder to track down and fix. :(
     
  9. MPSAN

    MPSAN Active Member

    1,193
    1
    Jun 20, 2009
    Portland,...
    Well, I think I will let it run and see if, somehow, the UPS helped at all. If not, it would be worth trying to put the original HDD back in. I believe it is still configured for Verizon FiOS, but Frontier took over. That is why I hope the MCard will still work and I hesitate to play with that on a weekend!

    OH, I do have a very expensive storage scope made by a local company :), but I am not sure it would be worth digging up the probes!
     
  10. MPSAN

    MPSAN Active Member

    1,193
    1
    Jun 20, 2009
    Portland,...
    Well, after 2 days it did another reboot. As usual, nothing is lost. So, the UPS did not do anything and the PS is fine.

    So, I want to take my 1TB WD10EARS out and put the original drive back in. I know it will need to update the Software and guide data. I hope the MCard will configure OK, but how can I put the Season Pass from the 1T drive back on the original drive? I am not woried about the shows as this is a good time...only 2 or 3 are on the WD10EARS now.

    I looked online and the 1T drives 16 season passes are there but when I put the original Tivo drive back in, won't all of the updating mess up the season pass info on the tivo.com site? I mean won't it put the OLD season passes from the Original drive up on TIVO.COM while all the updating is going on?
     
  11. MPSAN

    MPSAN Active Member

    1,193
    1
    Jun 20, 2009
    Portland,...
    What swap partition should I use, and I assume that I keep the WD10EARS jumper free!

    WELL!!! I put back the original drive and it took HOURS to get the software and guide updates! It has now run great for a week, instead of rebooting every other day!

    I took out the WD10EARS and ran the WinDLG thru a SATA to USB cable. Here is what I got!

    Test Option: QUICK TEST
    Model Number: WDC WD10 EARS-00Y5B1
    Unit Serial Number:
    Firmware Number: 0A80
    Capacity: 1000.20 GB
    SMART Status: Not Available
    Test Result: PASS
    Test Time: 18:21:10, March 24, 2013

    Test Option: EXTENDED TEST
    Model Number: WDC WD10 EARS-00Y5B1
    Unit Serial Number:
    Firmware Number: 0A80
    Capacity: 1000.20 GB
    SMART Status: Not Available
    Test Result: FAIL
    Test Error Code: 08-Too many bad sectors detected.
    Test Time: 07:57:59, March 25, 2013

    I may try again on my other system with a SATA III MoBo. UBCD 5.2.1 would not see the drive (I guess it has to be on the MoBo). Do you think I should move the drive to the newer system and try writing all zero's?

    One issue...minor...with the original drive is that other THD's call it DVR-BE79 instead of BEDROOM, but EVERYTHING works great!

    Should I even try to use WinMFS again or is this drive NG, and it did not have any SMART info!
     
  12. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    If you had it hooked directly to the motherboard instead of via USB it would be able to give you the S.M.A.R.T. data, but don't bother because of this:

    Test Error Code: 08-Too many bad sectors detected.

    Time to start watching for the WD20EURS to go on sale again, and to find your receipt to see if you have any warranty left on that EARS.

    That TiVo name issue, Bedroom versus a chunk of the TSN, should sort itself out in day or three. If not, you can go back to tivo.com and name it again.

    That EARS might be semi-salvageable, but it'll never again be trustable.

    Wait until you get a new drive to do anything with the EARS, then post back and we'll talk about it.
     
  13. MPSAN

    MPSAN Active Member

    1,193
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    Jun 20, 2009
    Portland,...
    Well, I am not sure what I want to do. The problem is that it IS the Bedroom THD and 20 HRS may be OK. I do not think that spending $90+ for a new drive would be worth it. I am going to get P4's when the next deal is available...Mothers Day or Fathers day? I see on eBay that a lifetime 160GB vs. 1TB is only about a $75 difference so I am not sure what I should do at this point. One thought may be to try again on the other system. The reason is that the one I used was a SATA 1 controller and the newer system is SATA 3. The SATA to USB cable I used was also SATA 1 and I did not jumper the drive for SATA 1.

    I wonder if there are any low level format programs still available that would write the sector info and map bad sectors? We used to have that...I guess I can look at UBCD.

    OH, if I do try WinMFS again, what was the default swap partition size and should we change it?

    TIA,
    Dave
     
  14. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    A SATA 3 controller should be able to auto-adjust down to a SATA 1 drive, possibly easier and more reliably than a SATA 3 drive can auto-adjust down to a SATA 1 controller.

    The DOS based version of the WD diagnostic on the UBCD should be able to re-allocate the bad sectors, giving their addresses to spare sectors that have been unused 'til now, unless there are so many there aren't enough spares to spare.

    Although that loses what was in the bad sectors, it's less destructive than writing zeros to the entire drive or whatever.

    Go ahead and put the 1TB back in the 652 and watch or transfer those 2 shows and get that out of the way.

    Do you have any other spare hard drives lying around?
     
  15. MPSAN

    MPSAN Active Member

    1,193
    1
    Jun 20, 2009
    Portland,...
    There is NOTHING on the "bad" 1TB drive that I need any more. I transferred the 2 shows to a different THD before I ever put the original 160GB drive back in. I do have the BAD WD10EARS running now on the newer system. I am using windlg and it sure does not like what it sees...at least SMART seems to think it is at the limit for about everything. Sometimes when things look so bad, something else is wrong. IF the data in the sector is bad then writing zeros, even with the WINDLG may help. I do not have any spare HDD's around that would be big enough to even matter.

    I wonder if WDC has a refurb? I can call them. My warranty ran out 1/2013, but I am sure it was pro-rated anyway!
     
  16. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    Not even Season Passes and cable card pairings?

    Make a truncated backup from the 1TB before you wipe it.

    Maybe it'll be good, maybe not, depends on where the bad sectors are.

    Once you get the original drive set up with the latest version of the TiVo software (11.0k) and whatever else, make a backup of it as well.

    Don't get the two backups confused.
     
  17. MPSAN

    MPSAN Active Member

    1,193
    1
    Jun 20, 2009
    Portland,...
    We are getting out of sync here. When I had a good sense from my excel sheet I created that I was getting a reboot every 2 days or so, we started watching the shows that were left. Being the Bedroom THD, there was not that much on there. We were down to a few shows that my wife wanted so I moved them to the DEN.

    I then took my ORIGINAl 160GB THD drive and put it back in. I was surprised, many HOURS later, after it got the latest SW and then the Guide Data, the MCard was fine. It even survived going from Verizon FiOS to Frontier FiOS. I added the season passes and all is good now, so, there is NOTHING on the "bad" 1TB drive that I need.

    I am still running the extended test on the SATA 3 system, but expect the same issue. That is why I had thought that perhaps a write zeros could help, but if the drive believes it has used all spare sectors, it may not help. Still, how can it be that bad and only reboot when idle? I mean, if it were that bad why did it not reboot while watching live tv, recording a show, or watching from our playlist?


    WOW, I just got off the phone with WDC support. They said that it will be worth running write all zeros. IF that still fails, then my warranty ended 1/2013, but they can process a return and replace for 3 months beyond that!
     
  18. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
    2
    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC

    Congrats on the extra warranty.

    When I'm dealing with the TiVo problems of several posters at the same time, especially when it involves posts spread out over a number of days, my memory of which details go with which person and which of their TiVos can get a bit fuzzy.
     
  19. MPSAN

    MPSAN Active Member

    1,193
    1
    Jun 20, 2009
    Portland,...
    No problem! I understand. I am starting to think that I should try the all zero's test and see what happens, but I am leaning in the direction of "getting a new drive and run". The Theater Room has a drive I bought at the same time. I should check it out!
     
  20. MPSAN

    MPSAN Active Member

    1,193
    1
    Jun 20, 2009
    Portland,...
    Well, I completed the long test on my SATA 3 system and it said PASSED! I looked at SMART data and it showed I am beyond what they want in a lot of areas, but I got the HIRENS DVD and it is supposed to have better SMART utils. Even 1 that will reset the data. I am thinking, as I write all zero's that I should call WD tomorrow and get more info on the replacement drive. I mean, can they send me a new drive that will not work in the TIVO? Not sure they would have a WD10EARS any more. I let them think that I am using the drive for Windows as I am not sure what they would say about the TIVO.
     

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