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Different type of "reboot" problem!

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by MPSAN, Feb 8, 2013.

  1. Feb 8, 2013 #1 of 69
    MPSAN

    MPSAN Active Member

    1,190
    1
    Jun 20, 2009
    Portland,...
    I have upgraded my 3 THD's to 1TB drives and they have been fine for 3+ years now. The one in the bedroom had a noisy fan so I replaced it. Other than that it has 1 issue that bugs me.

    I leave the tuners on different HD stations. Every few days they are both on the same station...like when you have a reboot. Sometimes I can hear the fan go into high speed, which I assume is a reboot.

    However, here is the strange part, this NEVER happens when it is doing a scheduled record and never happens during playback. I get NO FREEZES! I record the news at night at 11PM, and tell it to save 1 show. That way we can watch whenever we get in the Bedroom, and it only has 1 nights worth of news that gets overwritten the next night. From the deleted list I guess it does delete and records new. RARELY, when I just go to live TV on that station it will reboot, but that has only happened a few times EVER during these 3+ years. I would suspect PS and/or HDD but this seems like it would effect shows I record, etc. This seems like it must be something else. I suppose I "could" pull the HDD and run diags, but wonder if anyone knows what else to look for. Is it possible that the >250 deleted shows could be causing it? It sure would be a pain to delete them 1 at a time!
     
  2. Feb 9, 2013 #2 of 69
    MPSAN

    MPSAN Active Member

    1,190
    1
    Jun 20, 2009
    Portland,...
    I am surprised that there have been no suggestions yet.

    I do have a question relating to this, however. Is there a way to see when the TIVO HD thinks it did a reboot? I can see where it has connected for guide updates, but can we tell when it did the last reboot?
     
  3. Feb 9, 2013 #3 of 69
    steve614

    steve614 what ru lookin at?

    10,722
    0
    May 1, 2006
    Dallas, TX
    Yes. Go to the DVR Diagnostics screen, page down a few times and look for the line "Time Since OOB Tune Start". Display is given in seconds, so you'll have to do the math to get to minutes/hours/days.

    As for your rebooting problem, does it only happen when you tune that one channel? If so, it might be "toxic".

    Do a forum search for toxic channels.
     
  4. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
    2
    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC

    That sounds kinda like a scheduled reboot, like after a software patch download so it can switch to the alternate OS partitions.

    It tries it's best to do it when nobody's using the TiVo.

    Of course they haven't updated the software in who knows how long.
     
  5. MPSAN

    MPSAN Active Member

    1,190
    1
    Jun 20, 2009
    Portland,...
    I know that there has been no update in a very long time.

    Anyway, I tried the dvr diagnostics screen and it says Please Wait. I could not page down or do anything to get to an OOB Tune Start screen. I thought it was in system info, but it was not.

    I had to pull the power to get out of the Diagnostics screen. Is there a Number code to get me out of it? Just what was it waiting for?
     
  6. steve614

    steve614 what ru lookin at?

    10,722
    0
    May 1, 2006
    Dallas, TX
    No, no number code. It's a bug. Sometimes you get stuck on the please wait screen.
    Of course as you found out, you have to pull the plug and reboot.
    After the reboot, you should be able to get to the DVR diagnostics screen.
    Of course, there's no point now - you know when your Tivo last rebooted.
    :D:rolleyes:

    Odd thing, this only afflicts one of my TivoHDs, the one that I upgraded to 2 TB.
    The other one which still has the original hard drive has never gotten stuck accessing DVR diagnostics. Hrm.
     
  7. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
    2
    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    Did you increase the size of the swap partition when you embiggened the drive size?
     
  8. MPSAN

    MPSAN Active Member

    1,190
    1
    Jun 20, 2009
    Portland,...
    Well, you are correct. After a reboot I sure do not need to check. I also did not remember changing the swap size.


    One thing I did see somewhere, and I am going to try it now, is that OOB can be viewed from the CableCard menu...I think CC diags. I will look now and see what happens. The one I tried that I needed to pull the plug on is a THD that I upgraded to 1TB (like the other 2) and has been running for 4 years without ANYTHING going wrong! So, I can still try this on the THD that I am having the strange reboot issue on.

    OK, UPDATE. I guess the CableCard comes up with the Diagnostics screen.

    My last boot was about 14 hours ago so that makes it about 1:30 AM. I showed about 50,594 seconds. Anyway, that THD had no issue with going into Diagnostics. I show a sig level of 100 and both tuners were on CH 508, which is the NBC HD station. Signal is 100 and S/N is 37db. I see about 500 uncorrectable errors and from the past I do not think that is a lot for 14+ hours. Is this all OK? I will see what I see tomorrow and see if I can determine a pattern.
     
  9. steve614

    steve614 what ru lookin at?

    10,722
    0
    May 1, 2006
    Dallas, TX
    Nope. Copied and expanded with JMFS and supersized with WinMFS shortly after JMFS was introduced. I don't remember the swap partition being discussed all that much back then.
     
  10. MPSAN

    MPSAN Active Member

    1,190
    1
    Jun 20, 2009
    Portland,...
    Well, it has been a while and here is what I found....

    I created an Excel sheet that will take the seconds from the boot (OOB) and subtract it from the time I took the OOB reading. I seem to have the THD reboot every 2 or 3 days.

    However the thing that does not make sense is that it is the only "issue" I have. Both tuners are then set to the same station...that is it. All shows record OK, play OK, and I can watch live OK. No freezes or anything, etc So, does this mean that there may be a reason for this...like a high number of uncorrected errors on the stream from a station? So far, it almost looks like if it were on a different system it would be OK. If I sold it, I don't know what to say. It seems Perfect in every way!
     
  11. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    If it's not plugged into a UPS, you've got an uncontrollable variable, so to speak.

    If you get a little voltage sag in the middle of the night and your power supply is just beginning to get marginal, it could drop just enough to reset the TiVo's CPU.
     
  12. MPSAN

    MPSAN Active Member

    1,190
    1
    Jun 20, 2009
    Portland,...
    Well, I do have a UPS that is only powering a switch and Phone. I can move the cord to another UPS and try this on this THD. It is only 500VA, but that should be more than enough for a THD. I am not sure it will matter, but it is worth a try. A few reboots are mid day. Strange that this NEVER happens when we record or watch anything, however.
     
  13. MPSAN

    MPSAN Active Member

    1,190
    1
    Jun 20, 2009
    Portland,...
    Just an update...

    I seem to have these reboots every 2 days or so. I even made a spreadsheet to take the time I look at the OOB and subtract the seconds. That is how I know how often and when it reboots. It is NOT at the same time every 2 or 3 days. I wonder if it is the AC power? I will try a UPS as I do have one I do not need. I also was thinking of putting the original HDD back in. I know I can go to tivo.com and put the season pass back on to the original drive, but won't it get removed when I put the original drive back in and ir reconnects to update the guide and software?
     
  14. steve614

    steve614 what ru lookin at?

    10,722
    0
    May 1, 2006
    Dallas, TX
    I'd say at this point, you might as well open it up to check things out.

    Rule out the power supply being a problem before you start messing with swapping the hard drive.

    Do you have access to a digital multi-meter?
     
  15. MPSAN

    MPSAN Active Member

    1,190
    1
    Jun 20, 2009
    Portland,...
    Yes. However, I can at least move my UPS to the THD. I keep thinking that any PS issue or line issue...or even HDD issue would be random. WHY is it OK to record, play, or even watch live TV? It has rebooted if I switch tuners, but that has only happened once or twice.
     
  16. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
    2
    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    If your TiVo's power supply is marginal, then it's less able to ride out any glitches and dips on the power coming in and less able to handle a momentary extra load on the output side, and power to the CPU only has to dip below a certain point for a very short fraction of a second to cause it to reset.
     
  17. MPSAN

    MPSAN Active Member

    1,190
    1
    Jun 20, 2009
    Portland,...
    OK, well I will move the UPS there anyway. Will need to see the PS specs as well so I can tell with my DVM(s) if there is an issue and look at the caps.
     
  18. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
    2
    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    Yellow +12V

    Red +5V

    Orange +3.3V

    If it's a 648 there's a brown or gray wire that's around 8 or 9 Volts that's just for the OLED display and unlikely to have a problem.

    Black, of course, is ground.

    Just backprobe the plug on the motherboard.
     
  19. MPSAN

    MPSAN Active Member

    1,190
    1
    Jun 20, 2009
    Portland,...
    I have the 652160 THD.

    I just connected the UPS, but will check the PS soon. How much can they vary and still be considered OK?
     
  20. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
    2
    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    Post what you get, and we'll read the goat entrails and the phase of the moon.

    Take readings with the hard drive connected and with it disconnected.

    If you can alligator clamp the meter's - lead to the chassis away from the power supply so as to just have to use one hand to hold the + lead, do so.

    And always know where both ends of the TiVo's power cord are.
     

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