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Closed captions for archived shows

Discussion in 'TiVo Premiere DVRs' started by alexofindy, May 14, 2013.

  1. alexofindy

    alexofindy New Member

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    OK, once again thanks very much, moyekj.

    This works, I can now see the captions on my tivo. But all is not completely well - the captions are recognizable, but badly garbled. Exactly as they are when I play the same mpg file with VLC on my PC. some letters are duplicated, some are added, others are missing.

    Any thoughts on where the corruption may be occurring, or how I might track it down? What settings should I use in kmttg when I decrypt the .tivo files? And thanks again for your help, and of course for kmttg.
     
  2. moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    There are no special settings for decryption and it's unlikely the decryption is doing the corruption. Could well be the transmission from your cable company (i.e. original recording) was messed up.
    Easy way to confirm round trip from TiVo->PC->TiVo is not messing things up is:
    1. Find a recording that has properly working captions on your TiVo
    2. Transfer it to your PC and decrypt to .mpg
    3. Transfer it back to your TiVo and check the captions again
    To speed things up perhaps just make a 5 minute recording on your TiVo for testing with.
     
  3. ggieseke

    ggieseke Active Member

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    Are you transferring them from the TiVo as transport streams or program streams? AFAIK tivodecode still isn't 100% when it comes to transport streams.
     
  4. alexofindy

    alexofindy New Member

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    The transfer from the Tivo to the Readynas file server are handled by software on the Readynas, which is not really user configurable. If I examine a transferred .tivo file with mediainfo, the file is MPEG-PS and includes an EIA-608 text stream. Thus, I assume the transfer from the Tivo to my file server is, in fact, program stream.

    I've checked several files that have good captions when first played on the Tivo, these also wind up with corrupted captions after the round trip, so the problem is not with my cable provider - the programs arrive on my tivo with captions intact.

    But after I transfer them to my fileserver, and then to my PC, and decode them using kmttg as a frontend to tivodecode, the captions are garbled. This garbling is the same whether I play the decoded files on my PC with VLC, or transfer the decoded files (which are file type .mpg) back to my Tivo with pyTivo with TS=on. The issue here is that I can't transfer them back to the Tivo as TS unless I first decode (with tivodecode) them.

    If I transfer the .tivo files back to my Tivo directly from my Readynas fileserver, or from my PC using pyTivo, in both cases there are no captions at all; presumably in this case it is the known problem with a Tivo that it doesn't recognize captions that arrive as PS.

    Any suggestions?
     
  5. moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    Probably Readynas doesn't give you an option, but if you download with kmttg with TS Transfers option turned on then if you transfer those .TiVo files back the captions should be there without the need to decrypt 1st since it's already in TS container.
     
  6. alexofindy

    alexofindy New Member

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    Apr 15, 2010
    Thanks, moyekj. I suspect that will work, and will probably try it. But I would like to see if I can get it working via my readynas - the readynas automatically archives all shows with "keep until I delete" set, which lets my family members control the archiving from the Tivo user interface alone.

    I'll be doing some more futzing.....
     
  7. moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    FYI kmttg auto transfers has an option to do that too, but of course means having to leave a PC on running kmttg which is not as convenient.
     
  8. alexofindy

    alexofindy New Member

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    I have actually found a workaround, that for at least one show, works. User friendly it is not.

    The Tivo recordings are saved on my Readynas as encrypted .Tivo files, in .ps format

    I have downloaded and installed two programs on my Windows PC. First ccextractor, with the windows GUI. This program will extract the captions from the encrypted .TiVo file, without altering the .Tivo file, and quickly generate an .srt file which contains the captions in a standard, readable, text format. The captions are not corrupted.

    I also downloaded the 32 bit version of a codec called directvobsub, which enables the standard 32 bit version of windows medial player to read the .srt file. The .srt file (which must have the same name, other than the extension, as the .TiVo file; ccextractor does this by default) should be in the same folder as the .Tivo file.

    I have previously installed the free version of Tivo Desktop, which of course is no longer available from Tivo. In any case, it installs a 32 bit codec that the 32 bit version of Windows Media Player uses to decrypt and play the .Tivo file.

    If directvobsub has also been installed, a curved green arrow will appear in the system tray when the .TiVo file plays. this will allow one to configure the captions.

    Without changing any configuration options, playing a .TiVo file in windows media player will display uncorrupted captions, with one problem. At least for the single show I tried, the captions are out of sync by 46 or so seconds.

    Directvobsub has an option to advance or delay the captions. If I enter 46000 milliseconds in the directvobsub configuration dialog, the captions played properly on my PC.

    I have only tried playing short segments of one file, (it is late and I am tired) I will soon investigate further and see if this really works. I suspect the 46000 number will vary from show to show, so this procedure is definitely NOT user friendly. But it's a start.

    Directvobsub is available on the internet either as a standalone codec, and is included in many of the readily available codec packages.
     
  9. moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    That's a lot of trouble. You know that if you have a .mpg file and accompanying .srt file that streambaby will display the captions right? That's a much easier solution and the captions can be configured to be displayed in many ways (size, background and foreground color, etc) using this version:
    http://streambaby.googlecode.com/files/streambaby-20111203-2132.zip
     
  10. alexofindy

    alexofindy New Member

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    I didn't know about streambaby, and will try that shortly.

    After installation of the software I mentioned, a one-time process which I have now completed, the time consuming part of the process I described is determining the time offset (46000 in the example I gave). I don't know if using streambaby on an .mpg file will avoid this issue. I still need to generate the .srt file, for which I used ccextractor. If this is where the sync discrepancy comes from, I won't avoid it with streambaby. Best way to find this out it to try it, which I will.

    Do you know a way to get an .srt file from a PS .Tivo file other than ccextractor? These are the files saved on my Readynas

    I am suspecting the offset somehow arises because the TV show I recorded doesn't start at the beginning of the .Tivo file - there is a part of a commercial recorded first, which may introduce the timing discrepancy.

    My earlier experiments suggest that using tivodecode corrupts the caption data, which is why I would probably have to make the .srt file before I run tivodecode. I need to track this corrupting issue down, as solving it would also simply things for me. (A guess: there are two types of captions - closed captions and subtitles, which I believe are encoded completely differently. I wonder if there is corrupted subtitle data, in addition to the closed caption data, stored in the .Tivo file, which becomes visible after the file is decrypted into an .mpg by tivodecode)

    One aside, though this is a bit off topic. I have found that Windows Media Player (WMP) is the only player that will play a .Tivo file directly, decrypting on the fly. (Unless I use the .srt workaround, WMP doesn't display captions). I am suspecting that this is because the default version of WMP used by Windows 7 is a 32 bit version (there's also a 64 bit version installed with Windows 7, but it is not normally used). I believe the codec Tivo Desktop (the free version) installs to decode .Tivo files on the fly is 32 bit only. My other media players are probably 64 bit, and can't use the 32 bit decrypting codec. Wouldn't surprise me if Tivo doesn't have a 64 bit version of the decrypting codec, which may be why they no longer allow downloads of the free version of Tivo Desktop - as the world moves to 64 bit, the decrypting codec in the free version of Tivo Desktop stops working. As I said, this is a somewhat off topic digression

    Thanks again for your help, moyekj!!!
     
  11. moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    You may need VideoRedo QS Fix in flow to fix sync problems. Via kmttg I have ccextractor configured and tick off "decrypt", "QS Fix" (using VideoRedo) and "captions" task to download from TiVo to make an .mpg file and .srt file. I can then use streambaby to stream back to TiVo with captions or use "encode" task with ffmpeg to hard burn captions right into the video stream and either way it's always in sync for me.
     
  12. moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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  13. alexofindy

    alexofindy New Member

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    Thanks again, moyekj.

    I did try to run streambaby, but it complained that the command "java" in the streambaby bat file was not understood; obviously, I do have java installed, but I'll have to figure out why the command is not recognized by Windows, presumably an environment or PATH variable or some such.

    I am guessing that streambaby will have offset (out of sync) captions; there's probably an offset in the .srt file produced by ccextractor. directvobsub allows me to compensate, but in the documentation I find on streambaby, I don 't see such an option. As I said, I plan to try the version of streambaby you suggest, as soon as I figure the java glitch out.

    I don't own videoredo; I will gladly buy if it will solve my problem. I doubt it will fix the sync issue, it seems to be able to fix different sorts of corruption in the .srt files. Probably I'll try the ProjectX option in kmttg first, and then I think there are trial versions of videoredo.

    This is all apparently occurring because my source files are the PS .Tivo files archived to my readynas fileserver. The transport stream files you download using kmttg are probably cleaner, for whatever reason. I may switch to using kmttg in the future, but for now the readynas user interface is easier (since it doesn't require the computer to archive a show, all I do is set keep-until-I-delete on the Tivo) and in any case I have a lot of shows already on the Tivo I hope to view with captions.

    Thanks once more!
     
  14. moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    For streambaby just edit the .bat file to put the full path to javaw.exe in it in place of "java".
    VideoRedo QS Fix is designed to fix timestamp issues which cause out of sync problems. Yes try the free trial version. ProjectX won't work because while it fixes timestamp issues it throws out captions.
    Switching to TS downloads is not a good option without VideoRedo since tivodecode can't decrypt them properly. PS downloads are fine and the problem most likely is timestamp issues in orgiinal TiVo recording.
     
  15. BlondAngel

    BlondAngel New Member

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    Hi All,
    I am using kmttg to get the files from my premiere.

    I did not install tivo desktop software.

    VideoReDo could not open *.tivo files but it can open the decrypted/decoded *.mpg generated from kmttg.

    When I open the mpg file with VideoReDo, it shows that the captions are preserved. However, when I put the mpg file to be served by pyTivo, the captions are not available on the premiere. Here are the contents of the pytivo.conf file:
    [Server]
    port = 9032
    ffmpeg = C:\apps\kmttg\ffmpeg\ffmpeg.exe
    ts = on

    [MyMovies]
    type = video
    path = C:\Users\Media\Videos

    When I check the media infomation, it says that the
    mux type is ps - mpeg2 and the
    captioning is eia 608 with
    audio codec ac3.

    So, why are captions not present? What is missing in my process? I had thought that ts=on is all I needed to ensure that captions are present.

    I am using the wmcbrine fork of pyTivo (I downloaded it yesterday), and ffmpeg is version May 13 2013, and python is 2.7.
     
  16. moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    When you set ts=on in pyTivo.conf did you re-start pyTivo? Unless pyTivo is re-muxing to TS when transferring back to Premiere captions won't work.
     
  17. moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    One other important factor I sometimes forget about:
    On TiVo under Settings-Displays-Closed Captioning you need following settings:
    Standard Captions: CC1
    Digital Captions: None

    I tried a sample transfer today of a show with captions back to my Roamio with pyTivo and ts=on and captions were not displaying.
    Checking the above options I had the following (default) settings:
    Standard Captions: Off
    Digital Captions: DTVCC1

    Once I corrected the settings then captions showed up as expected on my transferred video.
     
  18. BlondAngel

    BlondAngel New Member

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    Feb 25, 2011
    I double-checked my default settings for closed captioning and it is set to:
    Standard Captions: CC1
    Digital Captions: DTVCC1


    For an *.mpg file, I got an error message from pyTivo (actually from ffmpeg)
    Please use -b:a or -b:v, -b is ambiguous

    For a *.ts file, I don't have this error message.

    Regardless of these issues, once I restarted pyTivo (which I have repeatedly whenever I make a change to pytivo.conf) and re-set the default closed captioning, the captioning from the transfered files WORK!

    Thanks.
     
  19. astrohip

    astrohip Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    Houston &...
    Using Digital Captions has caused problems for many caption users. Scrambled words and generally garbage displays. Setting this to NONE resolves it.

    YMMV.
     
  20. BlondAngel

    BlondAngel New Member

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    Feb 25, 2011
    When I was using google and searching for this issue, one thing that stands out: many people have this issue but have difficulty finding a solution (or once people find a solution, forget to post their experience).
    So, here is my solution/recap for newbies:

    0) I assume that the machine has java installed
    1) get python 2.x (I use 2.7) installed
    2) get pytivo (wmcbrine fork) and
    3) get kmttg

    You start pytivo by running (double-clicking) the pytivo.py file
    You start kmttg by running (double-clicking) the kmttg.jar file
    Look at the readme files for each if you have issues.

    • With kmttg, transfer your shows from your tivo. There is an option in kmttg to transfer in TS format. Do not use this! Keep it at default (TS turned off) to transfer in PS format. Set the checkbox to decrypt the transferred show (it will be saved as an mpg file).
    • add this setting to the [server] section of pytivo.conf file:
      ts=on​
    • On TiVo under Settings-Displays-Closed Captioning you need following
      settings:
      Standard Captions: CC1
      Digital Captions: None
    Notes: use mediainfo or videoredo if you want to double-check that the file has closed captioning; look for eia 608. In particular, videoredo has an option to turn on captioning while previewing the video.

    My current settings on my Tivo is
    Standard Captions: CC1
    Digital Captions: DTVCC1​

    But this may not work for you. YMMV.

    In short, transfer tivo shows to PC/Mac in PS format, save it as mpg (optional) -- ensure that the captioning stream is not stripped out, send it back to tivo in TS format.
     

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