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Clone one Premiere HDD to another Premiere?

Discussion in 'TiVo Help Center' started by stevenkan, Jun 23, 2014.

  1. stevenkan

    stevenkan New Member

    12
    0
    Dec 31, 2002
    Westlake...
    Are all "TiVo Premiere" (no suffix) units the same? My two Premieres are described in my TiVo account as 746-0001-xxxx-xxxx.

    Premiere #1 has died with the repeated GSOD. TiVo support suggested I disconnect everything except the HDMI cable, and that didn't help anything. The whining noise leads me to suspect that the HDD has died.

    I have a new 2 TB HDD in shipment right now, but it's bare, and I just realized I may not be able to copy anything off the dying/dead HDD.

    Is my other Premiere the same model? Can I extract the HDD from Premiere #2, copy it to the bare HDD, and insert back into Premiere #1 for happiness and joy?

    Thanks!
     
  2. dianebrat

    dianebrat I refuse to accept your reality TCF Club

    10,131
    81
    Jul 6, 2002
    boston'ish
    As long as you're not thinking you will get the programs, then yes, you can use the other HD and then do a C&DE.
     
  3. telemark

    telemark New Member

    1,544
    1
    Nov 12, 2013
    On the back of your Tivos there's a sticker next to the power cord. The first number is TSN.

    If you gives us the 2nd numbers called Model Number, we can tell what Hard Drives are in them.
     
  4. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,389
    2
    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    First you need to take the drive out of the Premiere, hook it to a PC (and if it's a GigaByte brand motherboard say so first so I can tell you how to avoid having it screw up the drive), and set the PC to boot from the CD/DVD deck and put in a bootable cd like the MFS Live cd v1.4 or the Ultimate Boot CD--for owners of Series 4 or 5 TiVos the MFS Live cd can't be used for making or restoring backups, but it still handy to have around. The main idea is not to boot into an Operating System that might do something to the drive without being specifically instructed to, the way it would have to be in a Linux environment.

    Then you see if the drive, when you power on the PC, is making the noise that was coming from the TiVo.


    There were, I think, 2 Premiere/Series 4 models whose model number began with TCD746, the TCD746320 and the TCD746500, which was a later release and was really just a TCD746320 with a 500GB hard drive instead of a 320GB one.


    An image from the TCD746320 needs to be restored, or copied, to a drive which is at least 320GB, and an image from a TCD746500 needs to go onto a drive at least 500GB in size.

    Which means if you're using a 2TB replacement, either will work.

    Any 746 image that comes from a different 746, even if it's another 746320, will have a different TiVo Service Number recorded in it wherever it is that it gets recorded, so when the TiVo boots up from that new image, the first thing it's going to want to do is change that, which it's designed to do. It'll put some sort of complaint on the screen and tell you to leave it plugged in and leave it alone for awhile.

    That's why you can't move a drive from one TiVo to another and save the shows the first one recorded, because those recordings are tied to the TSN of the machine which made them, so they'll only even be acknowledged to exist on the drive by that particular TiVo.

    If I were in your shoes I'd put the "bad" drive in the freezer overnight (or until you're ready to try to copy it) and figure out a way to keep it from getting hot during the copy process and use

    ddrescue

    or

    dd_rescue


    to copy it to another drive of equal or greater size, keeping in mind that you'll probably only get one shot at successfully doing so.

    Before you put that 2TB into service, by the way, you need to run the manufacturer's own diagnostic software long test on it, just to be sure.

    After that, you could, just as a test that the only problem is the original drive, copy the drive from the other Premiere (assuming its model number also starts with 746) to that 2TB (don't bother with expanding at this point), and put it in the sick one and see if it works once it resolves the TSN mismatch.


    Copying the original drive to the 2TB will overwrite that other TiVo's image on that 2TB drive, so that won't be a problem.

    If you copy the original drive to another, physically healthy drive, then when it boots up in the TiVo, maybe the TiVo will be able to fix the scrambled software problems. If not, you'll need a 746 image from somewhere.
     
  5. stevenkan

    stevenkan New Member

    12
    0
    Dec 31, 2002
    Westlake...
    So I used the Linux Bootable USB Key Method from here, and used that ISO as the boot drive for a VM in Fusion from my Mac. I connected my good 320 GB drive from my working Premiere via a USB/SATA adapter and copied it to a new 2 TB WD drive. I put that back in my dead Premiere, and it boots up!

    So yes, I think the old HDD was the problem.

    And yes, it is complaining on boot, but it's not complaining about the TSN; it says "There is a problem connecting to the TiVo Service. You can continue using your TiVo normally. This problem will fix itself" or something very similar to that. I didn't note the exact wording when it happened, and then the error went away.

    But I did successfully connect to TiVo via Settings: Network and Phone: Connect to TiVo Now, and now my status shows that my last connection attempt was successful.

    But my TiVo Service Number still shows up as 00000000??? and I can't pause or record anything.

    I've restarted several times, and the TSN still hasn't fixed itself. It's been more than 12 hours.

    Will this eventually fix itself? Or do I have to do something manually to reset it and have it look to the hardware for the TSN?

    Thanks!
     
  6. lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Active Member

    8,081
    2
    May 6, 2002
    John's...
    Perform a "Clear & Delete Everything".
     
  7. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,389
    2
    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    What lpwcomp said.

    But before you go to that trouble....


    What did you use to copy the 320 to the 2TB?

    dd

    ddrescue

    dd_rescue

    or something like jmfs that uses one of those and performs the expansion into the rest of the 2TB?
     
  8. stevenkan

    stevenkan New Member

    12
    0
    Dec 31, 2002
    Westlake...
    This fixed it! Thanks! My "dead" TiVo is now working, with 300 hours of storage space.
     
  9. stevenkan

    stevenkan New Member

    12
    0
    Dec 31, 2002
    Westlake...
    I used the Linux Live boot image that I linked above. I don't know what the underlying TiVo copy engine is, because it's entirely menu driven.

    I saw only options to Copy, Expand or Supersize any detected TiVo drive.

    Speaking of which, I also Copied my good/working Premiere drive to another 2 TB drive (and then Expanded and then Supersize) and put that drive back into the original good/working Premiere.

    It sees only the original 40 hours of total capacity. How do I force it to recognize its full capacity? Do I need to do a Clear and Erase All on this one, too?
     
  10. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,389
    2
    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC

    I checked your link to Ross the English guy's page, and what you've got is a bootable USB stick with comer's jmfs utility on it.

    Here's the page on jmfs

    http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=455968

    Since you copied the original drive from the TiVo you put the new drive into this time, there's no TSN mismatch, so I don't see any need to do a C&DE.

    Take the 2TB back out, hook it back to the PC (without the original drive connected this time), boot with that USB stick again, and this time select just the expand option.

    Maybe it just didn't work the first time because gremlins.
     
  11. telemark

    telemark New Member

    1,544
    1
    Nov 12, 2013
    This usually means for whatever reason the Expand step was skipped. You'll have to put it back in the PC to check or redo it.

    tivopart or jmfs or other tools can show you the partition map on the drive to let you know.

    Edit: What Unitron said.
     
  12. stevenkan

    stevenkan New Member

    12
    0
    Dec 31, 2002
    Westlake...
    I tried running Expand again, and it fails :(

    When I get into the office, with real PCs, I'll try cloning the original, working 320 GB drive to the "new" 2 TB drive again, over real physical SATA connections.

    For some reason my virtual machine approach no longer works any more :(

    In VirtualBox under Mac OS X 10.11.2 I can't see two USB-SATA adapters if they're the same model. When I connect the second one it kicks the first one out.

    In VirtualBox under Mac OS X 10.11.2 I can see two USB-SATA adapters, if they're different models, but any copy job fails after a few minutes, and the performance is ridiculously slow anyway.

    In VMWare Fusion 5.x under Mac OS X 10.11.2 I can't get any of my USB-SATA adapters or docks to connect. They all fail with a "driver" problem of some sort. I'm not really thrilled with having to shell out another $50 for a Fusion upgrade that may or may not actually fix anything.

    edit: I've let this sit for 18 months because I bought myself a new Roamio and two Minis. I'm now resurrecting these boxes because I want to (finally) sell them off and pay down a bit of that Roamio purchase!
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2016

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