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Cisco sues Tivo

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by Welshdog, Jun 1, 2012.

  1. Johncv

    Johncv Active Member

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    From what I understand is that there not enough profit from the Mot DVR division to justify it. Google brought Mot for their cell phone patens.
     
  2. replaytv

    replaytv gun talk ignore list

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    "Cisco wants the patents that TiVo has alleged against Cisco to be voided." I don't understand that statement that was in the original article.
     
  3. Drewster

    Drewster Shooting blanks

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    Barron's does a very bad job of summarizing a Reuters article:
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/01/us-tivo-cisco-lawsuit-idUSBRE85010320120601

     
  4. steve614

    steve614 what ru lookin at?

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    IOW, Cisco wants TiVos patents to be declared a standard so that they will be forced to offer them to other entities? (For a fee, of course.)

    If that's the case, then screw 'em. TiVo owns/came up with the patents, so they should be able to do with them as they see fit.

    If I came up with an idea for a new light bulb that will last 25 years, should I be forced to share the idea with all light bulb manufacturers, or should I have a choice in who I work with?

    Probably a bad analogy but I hope you get my point.
     
  5. magnus

    magnus Tivo User

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  6. nrc

    nrc Cracker Soul

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    Which I'm sure Cisco is happy about since it was their goal to force TiVo to attack them directly instead of going after their customers one by one. I wonder why Google has not used this tactic to counter Microsoft's attacks on Android customers.
     
  7. Drewster

    Drewster Shooting blanks

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    The Android handset builders have all(?) taken licenses. There's nothing for Google to fight.
     
  8. nrc

    nrc Cracker Soul

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    If Google knows the patents being asserted they could still pre-emptively bring a suit against Microsoft to have them voided. That may be the catch, Barnes & Noble's initial response to Micosoft's strong arm tactics illustrated how Microsoft is playing a shell game with the patents allegedly being infringed.
     
  9. royfernandez

    royfernandez New Member

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    Up by 0.18 (1.12%) Good luck :)

    Wonder where this is going. Maybe, Cisco is planning to acquire TiVo :confused:

    Right?"
     
  10. MichaelK

    MichaelK New Member

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    The more I think about it I believe Cisco just wants TiVo to give them a license (thereby shielding Cisco’s customers) . Even if it’s at the same rate as “everyone else” it’s a better deal that Cisco has a license then each of their customers needing to get one. Ignoring the annoyance to their customers there’s always the chance the captive customer will go rouge and actually make a deal with TiVo if they have to interact with TiVo.

    Seems so far Tivo sues the pay tv provider and not the STB maker. So far all this suing (or threats of suing) has forced the larger providers to either pay A) tivo the license fee directly (dish or ATT) or B) switch to TiVo (crickets chirping) or C) do some sort of license while also working with TiVo to let it be an option (Directv, Comcast, Cox, etc).

    TiVo probably would prefer B but the lawsuits don't seem to wind up there. Next best thing is C for TiVo. With option A being their worst move for TiVo since it doesn’t get TiVo into any more homes.

    If you are a STB maker like Cisco you want to avoid B and C and will probably put up with paying a license fee like in option A if that needs to be.

    It’s much better for Cisco to ensure the license only is the outcome- so that’s why I figure they sued tivo to try and get a license themselves, then the TiVo license applies to all the providers that Cisco sells to so there’s no possibility of a provider making a deal with TiVo for option B or C. No chance of someone already dealing with Cisco to look elsewhere
     
  11. CuriousMark

    CuriousMark Forum Denizen

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    TiVo wants to license for a monthly royalty for each DVR in use. I suspect the Cisco's of this world want a one time license fee as part of the box sale. The business models for licensing between a hardware and service provider are very different. Somehow that also has to figure into all this.
     
  12. MichaelK

    MichaelK New Member

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    You think tivo Just wants to be a licensing company?

    I think they want to get their boxes into the most homes possible so they can not be just a DVR provider (who's patents all expire in a few years) but rather can get into advertising, audience measurement, eCommerce, and the like.

    If they just exist to get patent licensing fees for the next few years then they are spending an awful lot of money on doing things besides just paying lawyers.
     
  13. CuriousMark

    CuriousMark Forum Denizen

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    Of course not.

    I just wanted to add one more reason to your list further above about why TiVo and Cisco may not have reached a licensing agreement. That added reason certainly would not exist in a vacuum. All your points are ones I agree with.
     
  14. morac

    morac Cat God

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    NJ
  15. markart

    markart New Member

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    My vote is for Cisco. One cannot expect any company to license its patents for other companies? That deal is quite unfair. Hen forth Cisco is pretty correct in suing TiVo.
     
  16. Johncv

    Johncv Active Member

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    Your joking?? TiVo has the right to license their patents to anyone at any price they choose.
     
  17. BobCamp1

    BobCamp1 Active Member

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    Actually, surprisingly, that's not clear at all. Such actions may be deemed a violation of anti-trust laws. There's no law explicitly stating this and there's very little case law on this.

    You can refuse to license to everyone, but it's not clear if you can refuse to license to one specific company if you've already given a license to others. You can set whatever price you want, but it's also not clear if you can charge wildly varying prices between the various companies.

    This has been done in other industries in the past to shut out one specific company from an industry, but it never lasts long and they have almost always settled out of court. But getting together to shut out one company is collusion, which is generally illegal, but it's not clear if this specific method is collusion or not.
     
  18. morac

    morac Cat God

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    Read the ARS link I posted. The government can only order licensing if a patent is part of a standard (for example 802.11g). That's called FRAND. TiVo doesn't fall under that category, but Cisco is suing to treat TiVo's patent as a standard. If Cisco wins, then TiVo would have to license their patents to all takers for a much lower price than what they can get currently.
     
  19. PotentiallyCoherent

    PotentiallyCoherent Member

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    Really? You should be forced to license your property? What if a bedroom in your house looks tasty to me?
     
  20. Johncv

    Johncv Active Member

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    I agree let all get together and have the court force Martart to rent the house to us for a party each month for $1.00 a month. :rolleyes:

    I think Cisco went to TiVo to license the patents. I bet the exchange went like this:

    Cisco: Hay TiVo we want to license your patents.

    TiVo: Sure pay us $x.xx per month for any boxes you currently have in use and any new boxes you make.

    Cisco: Oh gee that a lot money.

    TiVo: Also any new boxes you build have to be to our spec and use our software.

    Cisco: No way were going to sue you.
     

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