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Can I use WD25EURS (2.5TB) for 2.2 TB storage with Series 3?

Discussion in 'TiVo Upgrade Center' started by bilj65, Apr 2, 2013.

  1. dougdingle

    dougdingle HD Tech

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    Jul 4, 2007
    West Coast
    Yes, I think so. We tried endless numbers of things with modifying the superblock, and none of them worked, although a few came close. There are hidden checksums, and additionally at least two places where the tivo notes that the drive is married, and gets confused about that. One of the lessons learned was that a divorce inside the tivo takes AT LEAST five minutes. If the divorce screen disappears and the machine reboots after a minute or two, it's just going to ask to divorce again, over and over.

    Yes, but...

    Once the new drive is booting properly, you must remove it and delete newly created (by TiVo) partitions 14-16, after which the # of partitions on template pages 1-13 must be changed to 13. Pdisk does not work for this. We used Ibored.

    Once that's done it has to go back in the TiVo to be divorced again. It should take 5-10 minutes.

    At that point, drive can be pulled, and mfsadd can be used to expand the drive.

    Then back in the TiVo again to clean things up using its self-healing properties. After a successful boot, remove from TiVo, and Winmfs can be used to supersize it, and done.

    A supersized 2TB drive should have about 318 hours HD recording capacity.

    DO NOT use Winmfs for anything except to supersize. Using it for anything else will make the disk unbootable.

    I have 318 hours of capacity on the internal 2TB drive, and it's been up and running since July, so the mod seems stable.


    Yes, that was one of the first things we tried. A frigging nightmare. Never worked - drive either asked to be divorced endlessly, or else the TiVo would say that the wrong external drive was attached.

    And please keep in mind that the "release" version of MFSlive WILL NOT WORK to do this with 2 TB drives.

    I am posting this in the hopes of inspiring others. And on a selfish note, because it would be great if someone came up with a way to do this with the internal drive having been increased in size once, so I could do my other S3.
     
  2. cniessen

    cniessen New Member

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    Jan 10, 2004
    Boston
    Hmm. Interesting. What were the new partitions that Tivo created after the first divorce? Were they an MFS application/data pair? What was in them? How big were they? Was partition 13 still the size of the original partition 13 plus the data from the external HD (i.e. >1TB), or had the auto recovery process done something to split that back into three partitions? Since after the first divorce, the TiVo thought it should have these extra partitions. I wonder if they could just be resized to use up the rest of the disk, and the TiVo would just go ahead and start using them, instead of deleting them then creating new ones with mfsadd/winmfs.
     
  3. dougdingle

    dougdingle HD Tech

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    Jul 4, 2007
    West Coast
    Partition 13 was huge, contained all the shows from the external drive plus whatever was there before. The new partitions were tiny and as far as I could tell, empty. But they added to the partition count and had to be deleted before the disk could be expanded.

    It was a simple matter to delete them, and manually reset the total partition count to 13, after which mfsadd created the new partition to expand the disk to its full capacity.

    If you don't want to do the extra steps, you will have the same capacity for shows as before on a single drive, but I didn't want to waste all that space, and once we figured it out, the steps were simple.
     
  4. cniessen

    cniessen New Member

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    Jan 10, 2004
    Boston
    When you deleted the extra partitions, did the partition map only show the 13 partitions (plus maybe an 14th Apple_Free partition) or did it continue to show additional entries? Looking at the source code for pdisk, it looks like it should have cleaned up the extra partitions (it combines two adjacent Apple_Free partitions into one, and deletes the extra PM entry) and adjusted the partition map entry count properly throughout the PM. I'm only wondering because it would be trivial to write a little program to clean up the partition map, but it seems like pdisk should have done it, assuming its based on Apple source from post May 2000.

    I wonder if the PM entry count could have been adjusted before the initial divorce, and only have to do it once? You didn't by any chance try that, did you?
     
  5. dougdingle

    dougdingle HD Tech

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    Jul 4, 2007
    West Coast
    Yes, it worked as you surmised (13+Apple_free), pdisk did its job properly, until the drive was put back into the TiVo and divorced. That step recreated partitions 14-16. If I remember correctly (this was about five months ago), trying to delete them again with pdisk did not seem to adjust the partition count correctly (or at all). Hence we used iBored to delete them and manually enter the partition count at 13.

    We did not try setting the PM entry count before the divorce. I don't know if that would have worked.
     
  6. cniessen

    cniessen New Member

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    Jan 10, 2004
    Boston
    Do you have the updated source for the MFSLive disk (really, just the mfstools and friends)? Or is jmbach the only one with that?
     
  7. dougdingle

    dougdingle HD Tech

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    Jul 4, 2007
    West Coast
    I don't have the source, jmbach does.

    He sent me an ISO from which I burned a CD. He used the Mint Linux implementation, and everything is done dropping down to the console.

    The ISO is almost a Gigabyte in size, and with my upload speeds would take forever to upload anywhere, unfortunately.
     
  8. jmbach

    jmbach der Neuerer

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    Jan 1, 2009
    Ggieseke has the more eloquent way of accomplishing this task. My modification of MFSLive tools was more of a brute force mod. I found the issue and modified everything potentially related to it whether it needed it or not.
     
  9. ggieseke

    ggieseke Active Member

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    May 30, 2008
    I HOPE to have an easier way soon. Right now it's mostly just code running around in my head that hasn't leaked out through the keyboard yet. ;)
     
  10. cniessen

    cniessen New Member

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    Boston
    Can I get a copy of the source as it stands? I would be interested in knowing what the itch was that you were scratching. (Was it just converting everything that dealt with sectors from int32 to uint32? Or to uint64?) The only source code I have access to is the circa-2005 MFStools on sourceforge, which is pretty out of date at this point, and would probably be a painful starting point. I'd like to get the source so that I can better see whats going on, and modify the behavior if necessary.

    Ideally, if I could get the original source and your modified tree, I can just diff it and see what you've done. Thanks!
     
  11. jmbach

    jmbach der Neuerer

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    Jan 1, 2009
    Essentially you are correct. Have to change everything that is sector related that is a 32bit signed int to a 64bit signed int. Have to make sure the header files are changed as well. I am in the process of converting signed int to unsigned int and modify the logical decision points accordingly. It is much more tedious but, in my opinion, cleaner. I only modified two of the tools and one or two header files to get it to work for dougdingle. I probably won't have time to really work on it until Christmas. When I started programming there was no Internet so I haven't used things like github. Programming is a hobby and I don't have a lot of time for it. If you could make the signed int mod to all of the tools, that would help dougdingle with his last project. PM me with your email and I'll send you what I have.
     
  12. jmbach

    jmbach der Neuerer

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    Jan 1, 2009
    If you fix MFSLive tools, there is a possibility that you can use the whole 2.5TB drive. The key for it to have a remote possibility of working is that the extended partition starts less than the 2TB limit and that it is less than 2TB in length.
     
  13. JamieP

    JamieP Member

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    Aug 2, 2004
    Last time I checked, the Series 3 kernels are still not compiled with the CONFIG_LBD option (http://cateee.net/lkddb/web-lkddb/LBD.html). Without this, the kernel will not be able to cope with any drive > 2TiB.
     
  14. jmbach

    jmbach der Neuerer

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    Jan 1, 2009
    You are probably right. Did not know if version 11.0m of the S3 software might have been compiled with that option.
    Figured if it was attempted but failed then all that is lost is time.
     
  15. unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    Extended partition or expanded?

    Isn't "extended partition" a DOS/MBR thing?
     
  16. cniessen

    cniessen New Member

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    Jan 10, 2004
    Boston
    In the described procedure, the copied media/app partitions that came from the external drive were "collapsed" into a pre-existing media partition, wasn't it (i.e., 13 was the pre-existing media partition, and 14 & 15 were the media/app partitions that were copied from the external drive. So if the TiVo can deal with a single (disk) partition that has not just the contents of a media and application partition jammed together (the coalesced partitions that WinMFS will create), but with multiple of each (since partition 13 at the end of the procedure is media,app,media in its contents, can this be taken further? Ie, could you collapse even more partitions together? So for your extend internal drive, can you just collapse the current 14 and 15 into 13, do the copy with miscopy, then tack those onto the end of the collapsed partition 13 (so it would be media,app,media,app,media all in one partition)? Have you tried that?

    I was a little surprised that it was OK to collapse both 14 & 15 into a preexisting 13. I might have expected that it could deal with a concatenated media & app partition, but I'm a little surprised that it could deal with multiple concatenations.
     
  17. jmbach

    jmbach der Neuerer

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    Jan 1, 2009
    Don't ya know it's what I mean and not what I say. :p To be more precise, I meant to say is that the MFS partition that expands the recording space of the TiVo starts less than the 2TB boundary and does not extend more than 2TB in size. Now as previously stated, this may or may not work depending on what they did to the latest kernel.
     
  18. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    2.5TB -2TB means the original drive and its 13 partitions would have to have been 500Gb or greater, so only the HD XL would qualify in pre-S4 models.

    Would be an interesting experiment though.

    Now tell me how I can use a single 2TB in an S2DT. :)
     
  19. dougdingle

    dougdingle HD Tech

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    Jul 4, 2007
    West Coast
    No, haven't tried that. I'm under the assumption that there's a delicate dance in the partition numbering/count/pointers between the internal and external drives, and that I couldn't just change the internal drive's partition count without messing up the recordings.

    The various things we tried where we copied/moved large partitions around to try to collapse them all failed ( perhaps because of the procedures used). The two drive structure seems to be very insistent on form.
     
  20. cniessen

    cniessen New Member

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    Jan 10, 2004
    Boston
    FWIW, I was not able to find sources for a recent version of pdisk that was TiVo-aware. Attached is a patch against the latest Apple version of pdisk

    http://www.opensource.apple.com/tarballs/pdisk/pdisk-9.tar.gz

    that makes it compile cleanly on a recent linux, and support the TiVo partition map (really, the funny TiVo block 0). You can't create a TiVo partition map from scratch, but you can edit existing ones, and this version will preserve the TiVo block 0.

    This was compiled and tested on 32 and 64 bit versions of debian/ubuntu.
     

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