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Can a Roamio Rebuild a Data Drive from Scratch?

Discussion in 'TiVo Roamio DVRs' started by puffdaddy, Aug 20, 2013.

  1. rainwater

    rainwater Active Member

    Sep 21, 2004
    Also using a SSD for the buffer would give the user zero benefit. The read/write capacity has never been a bottleneck on a TiVo.
  2. P42

    P42 Active Member

    Jan 7, 2003
    Or just stick 16GB of RAM in there. While cool, the benefit to the end user is questionable. It is not as if HDD are failing all over the place. Shrug.
  3. andyw715

    andyw715 Well-Known Member

    Jul 31, 2007
    Ok OK OK...scratch the SSD thing...how about a dedicated smallish hard drive for this?

    Isn't the most frequent failure point (save power supplies with bad capacitors) the HDD (internal or expander?).

    So let the one that stores the data rest until an actual recording/streaming/watching is happening and buffer 4/6 tuners to a small drive. 3 hours (6 tuners at 1/2 hour) can't take up more than what 10GB?
  4. jrtroo

    jrtroo Chill- its just TV

    Feb 4, 2008
    Are you commenting upon speed or reliability, I'm not sure where these keep coming from. A tivo is always storing data, having two drives ads multiple points of failure.

    I think what you want to suggest is having the Tivo OS on a chip that can be upgraded from time to time, like an iOS device.
  5. bradleys

    bradleys It'll be fine....

    Oct 31, 2007
    The OP hasn't said it, but I think the only real value provided by separating the Operating system from the storage is swappable hard drives.
  6. Philmatic

    Philmatic Member

    Sep 17, 2003
    Can we move on? SSD/NAND for the OS only, putting a buffer on ram wouldn't extend the life of a hard drive at all. Hard Drives last longer when spinning 24/7.

    I'm still trying to confirm the unsubstantiated rumor that the OP posted about the Roamio loading the OS off of flash storage instead of the hard drive.
  7. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

    Apr 17, 2000
    I really hope this is true. Will make upgrades so much easier.
  8. NYHeel

    NYHeel Well-Known Member

    Oct 7, 2003
    He's saying that Tivos should just ship with a nominal hard drive like a 500GB or even 320GB that's very low cost with the OS stored on flash. That way the boxes are as cheap as possible and the user just puts in his own hard drive in a simple plug and play style. Or unscrew a bunch of things, rescrew back in and then plug and play.

    I like the idea.
  9. Jonathan_S

    Jonathan_S Well-Known Member

    Oct 23, 2001
    Actually (assuming the drive is just big enough to hold all the buffers) it'd be more like 1.3 - 1.4 times per hour. (So more like 31 - 33 times a day)

    The buffers only display up to 30 minutes, but (unless they've changed something semi-recently) they really seem to fluctuate between about 35-45 minutes*. Presumably because the natural 'block' size is 10 or 15 minutes long and they wait until and entire block is "out of buffer" before dumping it.

    Still, that usage pattern is a poor match for an SSD. Now putting the OS and database on SSD might generate some speed improvements for things like wishlist searching; but it wouldn't affect the reliability of the data drive at all.

    *That's why its possible (or used to be?) to record the current show and have stuff older than 30 minutes ago be in the recording.
  10. Series3Sub

    Series3Sub Well-Known Member

    Mar 14, 2010
    SSD's are "sexy" now, but the fact of life is that HDD's are still KING of THE WORLD. Yes, SSD's are great for boot-ups, if people really want, need, or require that speed--at a high cost. I find my late model, traditional PC's with their nominal boot-up times to be just fine, and I believe TiVo's long boot-up has been cited to be for reasons of keeping the product "secure."

    Yes, the OP's notion of a box we buy and then we slip in our own HDD sounds nice, but I imagine TiVo has quality concerns as a lot of unknowledgable people will go with the cheapest "off-brand" HDD, and this would diminish the TiVo experience and TiVo would lose customers and have more public gripes and forums like this would be telling newbies they should've gone with a WD Green or whatever HDD that is know to do very well with TiVo.

    However, I do look forward to the SSD's improving with tech breakthroughs and the falling prices, but for now HDD is really still best overall.
  11. MeInDallas

    MeInDallas Member

    Jul 31, 2011
    Dallas, Texas
  12. puffdaddy

    puffdaddy Member

    Mar 1, 2006
    Consider yourself shocked.
  13. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

    Jan 31, 2002
    So has everyone looked at the upgrade thread? It looks like the Roamio can work with a blank drive. At least it worked for someone with the Roamio basic.
  14. puffdaddy

    puffdaddy Member

    Mar 1, 2006
  15. lessd

    lessd Well-Known Member

    Jan 23, 2005
    I still wanted tested with two different drives as the flash may look at only the first SN of the first drive put in and not format any new drive. Or not
  16. ncbill

    ncbill Member

    Sep 1, 2007
    Western NC
    Tivo's using two different brands: Seagate Pipeline in the Basic, WD AV-GP in the Pro.

    Are there other brands "AV" drives, tuned to work with DVRs out there?

    I wouldn't expect anything other than an "AV" drive to work properly in a Tivo w/o modification - and the price on the above drives is reasonable @ around $100 for 2TB, around $150 for 3TB.
  17. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

    Jan 31, 2002
    IN the past non AV drives worked with no issues in the TiVos. But now that there are more streams than ever being read/written I wonder if it does make a difference now?

    I've upgraded TiVo drives a few dozen times over the years and never used an AV drive. But if I do go the upgrade route with the Roamio Plus, I will be using the WD AV drive if 3TB, and if for some reason 4TB works, I will use the Seagate AV drive.
  18. ncbill

    ncbill Member

    Sep 1, 2007
    Western NC
    I thought one had to directly-connect via SATA the non-AV WD drives to change firmware settings so soft boot ("restart") would work correctly?

    Like I said, the AV drives are cheap enough for me. :)

  19. trip1eX

    trip1eX Active Member

    Apr 2, 2005
    Nah. External drives! Hell Tivo sells one themselves for expansion purposes.

    And now that it has been shown that you can just pop a blank hard drive into a Base Roamio then a driveless Tivo is all but here.

    A hard drive is a big fixed cost that doesn't get cheaper over time like silicon does. No hard drive would not just save them the cost of the drive etc. But allow them to build a much smaller box which results in additional material, shipping, distribution and retail savings.

    Not that it has escaped me that an external drive isn't the most elegant-looking setup.

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