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CableCARD: TiVo Fights The Good Fight

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by sbiller, Mar 31, 2014.

  1. slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

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    Exactly, and is a point that should always be remembered when folks throw out the 'wireless will solve the HSI competition issue' line (not singling out anyone here). And of course there's the latency issue that makes life crappy for gamers and VOIP users.
     
  2. Diana Collins

    Diana Collins Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    Well, I suspect that once Verizon is offering subscription video services via wireless, those transmissions will not apply to your mobile data cap. Nor will wireless replace wired internet for some applications, at least in the near to mid term. But ultimately things like latency will be addressed (granted, it will require something new to replace the current GSM & CDMA technologies).
     
  3. Bigg

    Bigg Active Member

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    That doesn't make any sense. You could make deliver a couple of video streams before you're maxed out. The spectrum just isn't there for that type of use. WiMAX is not delivering gigabit anything. LTE-A probably will in the 2.5 band with enough channels aggregated through CA, but even then, it won't be able to handle high levels of demand.

    Linear isn't going anywhere. On Demand is growing and will continue to grow, but it's not going to completely replace linear. Also, those devices are supplementary. They can't replace having a 70" TV or a 100" screen with 7.1 channel surround and the like.

    That's great for a pair or quartet of video streams at a football game. That doesn't help you to deliver TV to a home.

    The issue is bandwidth. You need wired. I could see LTE providing rural internet access where there's relatively few users, but in any sort of suburban or urban area, forget about it. Wireless networks have been struggling just with smartphone demand for a number of years, and that's with half the data already offloaded to wifi.

    If Verizon does a video service over LTE, it will be a mobile-oriented service, and not something that in any way competes with cable TV. However, I still don't see the use case for mobile video more than short clips like through Vine or YouTube. It's just a poor user experience.
     
  4. May 5, 2014 #204 of 280
    Diana Collins

    Diana Collins Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    Let's make a date to come back here in 3 to 5 years and we'll see where mobile video is then. :)
     
  5. May 5, 2014 #205 of 280
    JosephB

    JosephB Member

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    I think it depends on how you define mobile video.

    Do you count tablets or just phones?

    Do you count computers? How do you differentiate between laptops and desktops?

    And, most importantly, do you include watching at home or just when you're away from home?

    A lot of people are probably watching a lot of video on tablets and phones, but probably at home. It's not a clear delineation, and the delivery of the video differs where you are when you watch it.
     
  6. May 5, 2014 #206 of 280
    tarheelblue32

    tarheelblue32 Active Member

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    I define "mobile video" not by the type of device being used but rather the network being used. If you are receiving the video content over a "mobile network" (i.e. cellular network, though I suppose satellite might also qualify) then that is "mobile video". If you are receiving the content over a fixed-line network (even if the last few feet is over wifi) then that is not "mobile video".
     
  7. May 5, 2014 #207 of 280
    JosephB

    JosephB Member

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    If I watch a video on the wifi at the airport on my phone while waiting for my plane, that's not mobile video?

    There's a sliding scale, and eventually there won't be any difference. When the cable companies go all-IP, it will all come from the same place and be delivered by the same devices and applications (which, unfortunately, I doubt will include TiVo in its current form)
     
  8. May 5, 2014 #208 of 280
    Diana Collins

    Diana Collins Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    Personally, I would classify anything that doesn't pass through another, user owned, gateway device before going wireless as "mobile" for the purposes of this discussion. Or, put another way, if the wireless signal is coming from a 3rd party provider (whether that's LTE, public WiFi or something else) that qualifies as mobile in my book.

    When you start to combine the speed increases in wireless technologies, the improved robustness of MIMO and deployment in a cell-based topology, it is quite easy to envision delivering 50 to 60 distinct video channels per cell. That is pretty close to what you'd need for TV service, since each cell would only need to carry the content currently being viewed within that cell.
     
  9. May 5, 2014 #209 of 280
    JosephB

    JosephB Member

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    I largely agree with your definition, which would effectively mean if you're viewing video on a mobile device at home, that's not really "mobile" (I would extend this to say even if you're at home but using your cell data connection, that's not truly mobile).

    The line will continue to blur, though, as cable companies roll out wifi hotspots along their wireline network and as cell providers work on LTE Multicast. With an app on your phone or your Xbox or TV, there will be no difference.
     
  10. May 5, 2014 #210 of 280
    Bigg

    Bigg Active Member

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    I have a 60" TV now, I'm hoping to have a 120" or larger 4K projection screen with a more powerful 7.1 channel surround sound system by then. Even if I have a Galaxy S 10, it's still going to look like crap compared to the 120" 4K screen...

    A tower would need to support thousands to replace cable tv with some sort of wireless TV, and that's not going to be possible in the forseeable future.
     
  11. May 5, 2014 #211 of 280
    JosephB

    JosephB Member

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    Not with multicast. Using multicast, each video program would only have to be sent once from any given tower, and for lack of a better analogy, devices connected to that tower could "tune" that video program just like a TV. Plus, only programs being actively viewed would have to be sent, not every single channel.
     
  12. May 6, 2014 #212 of 280
    slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

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    If data becomes unlimited on mobile across all the majors I'll buy it, but not until then. Given that text/talk has gone that way with competition it could happen. And by that I mean truly unlimited, not soft capped or throttled once you hit a given point.
     
  13. May 6, 2014 #213 of 280
    tarheelblue32

    tarheelblue32 Active Member

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    Talk/text went unlimited partly due to competition, but also due to falling demand. Talk minutes used and texts sent has actually been going down the past few years, so cell companies have all the capacity they will ever need for talk and text. Data demand, on the other hand, has been skyrocketing, and wireless network operators have been scrambling to keep up.
     
  14. May 6, 2014 #214 of 280
    aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    That's the opposite of where data is going. As time goes on fewer and fewer people have unlimited data. FOrtunately for me I'm grandfathered into unlimited with Verizon Wireless. If I had to switch to their current plans, it would cost me over $850 more a year.
    I just hope it doesn't end anytime soon. Because no matter what carrier I could go to, my bill would go up alot from what I'm currently paying with Verizon for unlimited data.
     
  15. May 6, 2014 #215 of 280
    jwbelcher

    jwbelcher New Member

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    I will cancel out of principle if (probably when) they kill my grandfathered unlimited
     
  16. May 6, 2014 #216 of 280
    Bigg

    Bigg Active Member

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    There's not nearly enough spectrum for that. It just makes no logical sense outside of a couple of streams that are location-specific (i.e. football game type of thing).

    I hope they do kill Unlimited plans. It's not sustainable to have oinkers lining up at the trough consuming insane quantities of a finite resource.
     
  17. May 7, 2014 #217 of 280
    aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    What's considered an insane quantity? This year I've been averaging close to 5 GB a month. So if I had to switch to the new plans I would need the 6GB plan which would more than double what I pay a month right now. But certainly would not call that an insane amount of data. Most of it comes from streaming music from Pandora and Amazon.
     
  18. May 7, 2014 #218 of 280
    Diana Collins

    Diana Collins Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    You may choose to not use wireless, but that doesn't mean there won't be millions that do.

    There are not thousands of distinct channels so, with multicast, you don't need to support thousands of sessions. New wireless frequencies, more sophisticated encoding systems, better compression algorithms and more are all converging to make wireless viable as a primary data link. It WILL happen, it is just a matter of when and which technologies emerge as the standards.
     
  19. May 7, 2014 #219 of 280
    CuriousMark

    CuriousMark Forum Denizen

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    Should smaller neighborhood sized mini-cells, and thus higher frequency re-use rates, be included in that list? That gets you all the bandwidth you need without the wait. The build out is also substantially cheaper than fiber to the home is.
     
  20. May 7, 2014 #220 of 280
    Diana Collins

    Diana Collins Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    Precisely.
     

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