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CableCARD: TiVo Fights The Good Fight

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by sbiller, Mar 31, 2014.

  1. Mar 31, 2014 #1 of 280
    sbiller

    sbiller Active Member

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  2. Mar 31, 2014 #2 of 280
    windracer

    windracer joined the 10k club

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    Percentage of MSOs not allowing CableCARD self-installs went up? WTH?

    I am actually pretty happy with Brighthouse with regards to their TiVo support lately ... CableCARD self-installs, free TiVo "kits" (with TA and CableCARD), etc. At this point the only thing I could really want is to not be charged for the CableCARD.
     
  3. Mar 31, 2014 #3 of 280
    sbiller

    sbiller Active Member

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    Agreed. BHN is doing pretty well with respect to CableCARDs and TAs... my only standing complaint at this point is the copy control flags which I believe is related to their retransmission agreements.
     
  4. Mar 31, 2014 #4 of 280
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    I read somewhere that BHN is a subsidiary of TWC, so perhaps their use of the CCI byte comes from their parent company's policies?
     
  5. Mar 31, 2014 #5 of 280
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    What is the EchoStar thing they keep referring to in that letter? Was there some case by EchoStar that overthrew some of the CabkeCARD rules?
     
  6. Mar 31, 2014 #6 of 280
    trip1eX

    trip1eX Active Member

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    IF "the spirit of agnostic, retail cable content availability is being met via the likes iPad, Xbox, and Roku apps etc" as the columnist ponders then let's get rid of cablecard and go to IP authentication.

    IF it is kept then customers shouldn't have to rent a cablecard in perpetuity. $4/month ad nauseum for a cable card? Ridiculous.
     
  7. Mar 31, 2014 #7 of 280
    tarheelblue32

    tarheelblue32 Active Member

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    Until cable companies are required by the FCC to support any and all 3rd party device apps, I'm not interested in even discussing the possibility of getting rid of CableCards.
     
  8. Mar 31, 2014 #8 of 280
    sbiller

    sbiller Active Member

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    BHN is owned by Advance Publications. They do continue to share some technology and licensing agreements with their former partner, TWC.

     
  9. Mar 31, 2014 #9 of 280
    sbiller

    sbiller Active Member

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    In EchoStar Satellite L.L.C. v. FCC (“EchoStar”), the D.C. Circuit vacated the FCC’s Second Report and Order and Order on Reconsideration, which had the effect of vacating various rules adopted in those orders, including the encoding rules, the technical standards for CableCARD (Sections 76.602 and 76.640), and labeling with respect to CableCARD compatibility (Section 15.123). The integration ban was adopted in the First Report and Order and therefore is unaffected by the Echostar decision.
     
  10. Mar 31, 2014 #10 of 280
    sbiller

    sbiller Active Member

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    Some more from the FCC regarding the Echostar decision in the document granting Charter a two-year waiver on the integrated security requirement...

     
  11. Mar 31, 2014 #11 of 280
    gweempose

    gweempose Active Member

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    What's surprising to me is that, despite being the largest MSO, Comcast has turned out to be one of the most CableCARD friendly companies out there:

    Self installs, dedicated CableCARD hotline, proper CCI byte settings, and a full rollout of VoD across all its markets.

    I've certainly been guilty of ripping on Comcast in the past, but I have to admit that it's a great time to be a Comcast/TiVo customer. :)
     
  12. Mar 31, 2014 #12 of 280
    tarheelblue32

    tarheelblue32 Active Member

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    Once they gobble up Time Warner Cable, they will drop the hammer.
     
  13. Mar 31, 2014 #13 of 280
    windracer

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    *facepalm* Yes! Of course, that too! Can't believe I forgot that major point when posting. :eek: I'm very jealous of my sister who can stream everything from her TiVo (with Comcast) to the iOS app.
     
  14. Mar 31, 2014 #14 of 280
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    Just another reason we really need AllVid.

    But it looks like the FCC is loosening up the rules, not doubling down on them, so I doubt we're ever going to see it. Sounds like their ex-chairman turned chief lobbyist is doing a good job of buying convincing the current FCC to see things his way.
     
  15. Mar 31, 2014 #15 of 280
    trip1eX

    trip1eX Active Member

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    Well we do have non-MSO apps like HBO GO and ESPN3 among others that require your cable subscription to be authenticated and don't require cablecard.

    Should HBO or ESPN, for example, be required to dump their content thru any other 3rd party app?
     
  16. Mar 31, 2014 #16 of 280
    iceturkee

    iceturkee Member

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    they give you the tuning adapter for free. could be worse.
     
  17. Mar 31, 2014 #17 of 280
    davezatz

    davezatz Funkadelic

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    No, that'd likely be their counter argument - versus how I see it. Cablecos would be fine keeping things locked down, opening up only on their terms, and for/with whom they have partnerships. But, yes, digital makes way more sense - PCMCIA is a hundred years old and doesn't scale well. Plus, CableCARD as implemented doesn't provide retail two way communication. Various players have been tinkering with digital conditional access for some time, but given the vacated order along with the FCC's limited enforcement interest and capabilities, in light of the small number of players interested in seeing this opened up, it hasn't really gone anywhere. OCAP, tru2way, AllVid, where are you now? Will Secure DLNA set us free? Some are looking at it ... (although strangely TiVo isn't a DLNA member yet).

    Regarding fees, they'll find ways to hit you. Both DirecTV and DISH are/will charge like $6/mo for RVU TV or PS3 access. I assume a "soft" TiVo running inside Roku would also come with a fee.

    Some footnotes... OCAP/tru2way were still likely to rely on CableCARD for auth, but provide a software framework to harness the guide and hopefully provide two way communication. AllVid was proposed as a successor to all of this. Which withered and died as far as I can tell. New and interesting is the Comcast-backed RDK that several others may be latching onto and something TiVo is cognizant of.
     
  18. Mar 31, 2014 #18 of 280
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    TiVo should take it upon themselves to develop an AllVid type device to show the industry how it could be done. They could move all the tuners and the CableCARD(s) into a centralized network device, ala the HDHomeRun Prime, then create DVRs and Minis that could access those tuners as needed. By moving the tuners into a central box like that they could also allow users to mix cable and OTA, or switch between them, without having to replace the entire DVR. They might also be able to exploit their relationship with DirecTV and develop a gateway for them as well, creating a unified experience for all users. And if these cable companies get their way and are allowed to deploy proprietary downloadable security systems then TiVo could simply offer different gateways for the various standards rather then having to offer complete DVRs for each market.
     
  19. Apr 1, 2014 #19 of 280
    JosephB

    JosephB Member

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    BHN is a separate company, but those systems were former TWC which BHN co-owned with TWC, but BHN took direct control over the systems they owned. There is still a partnership between TWC and BHN where BHN uses TWC platforms and engineering standards and is also included on all TWC programming agreements. So, operationally they are indistinguishable from TWC.

    That's different. That's a value-add, and out of home streaming isn't regulated. The FCC's power is limited to linear video delivered over a coaxial cable to your house. They have no power over things delivered over the internet.

    I think if TiVo were interested in doing that, they would have already done it. Obviously the latest DirecTV TiVo was simply an afterthought and TiVo is doubling down on the partner with MSOs model. They'd have to get DirecTV and/or Echostar on board to make it worth it, and neither of those companies is going to be particularly interested in such a model.
     
  20. Apr 1, 2014 #20 of 280
    slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

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    As I posted in Zatz's comments thread on this, the FCC granted a waiver until 2014 for the industry to come up with some sort of IP standard for HD streaming. I've seen nothing since, and their AllVid proposal was essentially abandoned after the MSOs told them to pound sand. And then they grant the ridiculous Charter downloadable security waiver.

    Things don't look good on this front which is why Tivo continues to fight. I'm not sure if anyone at the FCC cares.

    http://apps.fcc.gov/ecfs/comment/view?id=6017143898
     

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