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BluRay -> TiVo Playable MP4 help

Discussion in 'TiVo Home Media Features & TiVoToGo' started by rfryar, Aug 10, 2009.

  1. rfryar

    rfryar My Media, My Way

    222
    0
    Feb 15, 2008
    Cottage...
    Overview: Ripping a BluRay Movie (That I own btw) to hard drive, demuxing, converting video to lower bitrate TiVo compatible H264, converting audio to AC3 or Stereo AAC and remuxing.

    Currently I am successfull in this process except that MeGUI is changing the frame rate down to ~19 FPS instead of leaving the framerate of 23.976. So I am wondering if anyone else has a similar process of converting HD Movies down to a bitrate the TiVo can play via StreamBaby or PUSH.

    Tools currently used:
    • SlySoft AnyDVD (Ripping Blu Ray to Disk)
    • MeGUI
    • MP4Box (Mp4 Mux/DeMux)
    • SUP Rip (Subtitle converter)

    Steps:
    1. Rip the movie to hard disk using AnyDVD. This places the entire Blu-ray movie into a folder
    2. Extract the video track, audio track, subtitle tracks via MeGUI's included HD Streams Extractor tool. I select MKV for the video container, AC3 for the audio and SUP for the subtitle.
    3. Using AVS Script creator to create a AVS for the video track. I crop off the black bars if they exist.. Mine looks similar to the below:
      Code:
      global MeGUI_darx = 47
      global MeGUI_dary = 20
      DirectShowSource("E:\Videos\Recordings\TAKEN\Taken.m2ts", fps=23.976, audio=false, convertfps=true)
      crop( 0, 128, 0, -128)
      
    4. Encode the video to MP4 using the AVS profile created. I am using the "x264: Stand-alone" profile and only changing the bitrate setting down to 8000. Somewhere around 10-12 is where the TiVo starts to choke on the video.
    5. Recode the audio from AC3 to AAC LC Stereo. I do this as streaming with streambaby will get out of synch on AC3 Audio. If I was to PUSH the videos to the TiVo I would leave in AC3 format so I maintain the surround.
    6. Use SUP Rip to create a SRT from the extracted SUP
    7. Finally use MP4Box to Mux the Video and Audio back into a ISMA MP4.

    Now the above process works great, a bit slow and I wish the TiVo could deal with the ~20 Mbit bitrates in the BluRay movies with having the reencode them. But I am struggling with one small flaw...

    Sometimes the videos get reencoded into ~19 FPS instead of leaving them as 23.976. I have no idea why, I am not performing any deinterlacing so I do not know why it would touch the FPS. The MKV and the raw AVC or H264 codec (depending on the video title) always states it is in 23.976 FPS. Any Ideas?

    Otherwise feel free to use this as a starting guide to convert Blu-Ray into TiVo compliant MP4s.

    Rick
     
  2. Airhead315

    Airhead315 New Member

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    Jun 11, 2009
    Why hadn’t I thought of this? My whole reasoning for not buying a PC BluRay player was that the disks were too expensive to justify the cost of backing up my collection. I hadn’t thought of ripping the bluray disks and then converting them to a format the Tivo can play...and since I just upgraded to a 1TB internal I would be able to store a couple of movies on the TiVo!

    I hope you can get your issue worked out. Does anyone else here already do this? If so, what process are you using? He is using at least one purchased program...obviously I would like to avoid that if I can :p
     
  3. Airhead315

    Airhead315 New Member

    106
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    Jun 11, 2009
    Okay, I decided to improve this thread a little bit by providing the links where you can obtain legit copies of the software mentioned in the OP:

    SlySoft AnyDVD: http://www.slysoft.com/en/anydvdhd.html <- 63 EUROs for one year, 79 for two years...
    MeGUI: http://mewiki.project357.com/wiki/MeGUI <-Free
    MP4Box: http://www.videohelp.com/tools/mp4box <-Free
    SUP Rip: http://exar.ch/suprip/ <- Free

    So if anyone can provide informaiton on where to obtain a free DVD Ripper that can rip BluRay disks then we can make this process totally free. Here are some FREE possibilities:

    AVS Video Converter: http://www.avs4you.com/AVS-Video-Converter.aspx
    Blu-Ray Disc Ripper: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=129663
     
  4. rfryar

    rfryar My Media, My Way

    222
    0
    Feb 15, 2008
    Cottage...
    Thanks for providing the links. I probably should have done that. I have also used DVDFab6 http://www.dvdfab.com to rip Blu-Ray discs. It is a bit cheaper than AnyDVD and I already had a platinum license for the DVD ripper and converter (worth the money IMHO).

    I think I may have found the issue in the process... Finishing a full conversion later today (20 hour process on my current HTPC!) and I should hopefully have it down with out messing up the Frame Rate. If it does work I will provide a step by step with screen caps document.

    Rick
     
  5. fyodor

    fyodor Member

    523
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    Sep 19, 2006
    Let me ask a stupid question-can Tivo play Blu-ray streams that have been remuxed (but not re-encoded)? Or is it necessary to first reduce the bitrate? Given how cheap storage is these days, I'd just as soon not waste tons of time transcoding.

    Edit:-just noted that the OP said that his Tivo has issues with the full-bitrate rips? Is this a playback or streaming-speed issue? Have you tried pushing the high-bitrate files to your Tivo to see if they play differently? I ask, because the 10-12 megabit speed that you mention is around the maximum speed for PC-Tivo transfers.

    F
     
  6. rfryar

    rfryar My Media, My Way

    222
    0
    Feb 15, 2008
    Cottage...
    I will try to push a remuxed file. I am pretty certain I already tried this and ran into a few issues..

    First was bitrate, I think the TiVo just froze the video until it could internally catch up.

    The second is the version of H264. The TiVo only supports Level 4.1. I think most H264 Blu-Rays are encoded using a more recent level. You can use a tool to fake that the video is Level 4.1, but if the stream takes advantage of the newer features then the TiVo ignores the stream until it can understand it.

    But as I said I will give it a try tonight. Am demuxing a blu-ray now and should be able to mux it in 20 mins or so and test it in an hour.

    Rick
     
  7. rfryar

    rfryar My Media, My Way

    222
    0
    Feb 15, 2008
    Cottage...
    Yes the video is unwatchable at those high bitrates. I do not think the CPU can keep up. Both streaming (And waiting for enough data in the stream) and pushing the video produced the same behavior.

    Basically the video is jerky, skipping and has audio cut outs at the standard bitrate.

    But one item I found interesting is at least the Blu-Ray I tested with the H264 was only Level 4.1.

    So reducing the bitrate is a requirement to play these on the TiVo.

    Rick
     
  8. fyodor

    fyodor Member

    523
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    Sep 19, 2006
    Alas. Thanks for checking and posting.
     
  9. Apr 2, 2010 #9 of 46
    jaredmwright

    jaredmwright New Member

    215
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    Sep 5, 2004
    Bay Area
    I checked out the Pavtube Blu-ray video converter ultimate (since another similar product was mentioned) and found that it also supports encrypted .tivo files by entering your MAK in the options. This really is a one stop program. I noticed in my testing that it is very fast and the quality is good also.

    http://www.pavtube.com/blu-ray-video-converter-ultimate/

    I have been using other tools that don't use both cores on my CPU, but this uses all of the cores, making performance better as well. This is also the most straightforward application I have found. The demo doesn't limit anything, but it does place a watermark right in the middle of the video.

    I would be interested in hearing what other people think as well, I haven't bought it yet, still trying it out.
     
  10. dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

    6,997
    18
    Jul 6, 2006
    Near...
    When doing Blue-Ray to MPEG-4, does it re-encode to lower bitrates (which according to earlier posts is necessary for TiVo playback)? I don't know what you meant by "very fast" but re-encoding would take substantial time.

    The .TiVo "handling" is for inputs only, according to their web page. Your post seemed to suggest you could go directly from Blue-Ray to .TiVo.

    If this program really does everything it claims to do for $65 and is reliable and well supported, it will be an amazing thing. (If you get the impression I'm skeptical, well .... you're right.)
     
  11. jaredmwright

    jaredmwright New Member

    215
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    Sep 5, 2004
    Bay Area
    I am skeptical as well, and I haven't had enough time to go through all of the scenarios as you mentioned, blu-ray -> TiVo compatible .MP4.

    I wasn't trying to imply it would convert to a TiVo file, I meant that is supported previously encypted .tivo files as input.

    I haven't tried converting to an .MP4 and pushing to the TiVo, but that is my ultimate goal. Since it doesn't have any limitations during demo, it at least is fully transparent and doesn't leave a lot to risk.

    I would be interested to hear from others what there experiences are as well. I currently use AnyDVD, but this seems like a good alternative with more functionality as long as it is supported and maintained, which it has been for the last 3 months according to their change log.
     
  12. jcthorne

    jcthorne Active Member

    2,721
    3
    Jan 28, 2002
    Houston
    Please keep us updated on how this works, how long conversions take, if tivo accepts the mp4 files (please try some 720p and 1080i files to tivo). If it truly works as discribed, it's worth the $65.
     
  13. orangeboy

    orangeboy yes, I AM orangeboy!

    4,083
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    Apr 19, 2004
    East Moline, IL
    I'd like to hear about doing this on the Premiere, and the bitrate ceiling on that platform... I know the audio bitrates have been bumped up from 448kbps to 640kbps, but I don't recall if video bitrates have been boosted as well...
     
  14. rfryar

    rfryar My Media, My Way

    222
    0
    Feb 15, 2008
    Cottage...
    The major concern is the H264 version that the new TiVo supports. Currently the TiVo supports 4.1 which is why we need to reencode blu rays, even BluRays that are H264 encoded. Most of those are using a 4.2 or later version of the Codec. I have tried to just remux BluRays with out reencoding and the video is jerky as the TiVo must throw away the frame information that it does not understand.

    Actually looking at the specs that have been determined the video bitrate is more than capable to just remux if the H264 version support was increased in the Premeire.

    Rick
     
  15. moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

    11,143
    32
    Jan 23, 2006
    Mission...
    The problem is that H264 support is really just an afterthought for TiVo mostly used for YouTube which obviously doesn't have the high bit rate requirements. As we have already painfully discovered there are some frame rate related and issues with H264 for series 3 (supposedly fixed for Premiere), and aspect ratio problems (I don't think those are fixed with Premiere), and I don't think TiVo spends much time on H264 decoding, so likely the same 4.1 level limit that exists for S3 units is still the case in Premiere. According to bkdtv the Premiere units total bit rate limits are ~35 Mbps compared to ~25 Mbps for S3 units, but I think the 4.1 level limitation is still there so not very helpful.
    Then of course there is still the audio limitations where 6 channel AC3 is the best that can be supported right now which means you can't use the primary audio track.
    Unrelated but also there is still the 1.1 GB stream buffer limit which is another big obstacle which makes TiVo a much less attractive option for generalized H264 playback (to me streaming is a lot more attractive than having to push files on to the TiVo which you then later have to go delete on that unit itself).
    I feel that if TiVo were willing to spend just a little time lifting some of these seemingly arbitrary requirements it would go a long way into making TiVo a much better platform for H264 playback. But so far I don't think TiVo has thrown any bones in our direction related to this stuff.
    So as it is now I think there are better network playback options out there right now for H264 without having to jump through hoops to generate streams that can playback without issues on TiVo.
     
  16. Rdian06

    Rdian06 New Member

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    Apr 12, 2008
    Before you go throwing money at Pavtube, realize that it seems to be illegally using ffmpeg.

    I would suggest not encouraging violation of open source licenses.

    See: https://roundup.ffmpeg.org/issue1810
     
  17. jcthorne

    jcthorne Active Member

    2,721
    3
    Jan 28, 2002
    Houston
    For tivo HD/S3 compatibility, 720p video is 1280x720. No other resolutions work correctly. Call it a bug in the decoder if you wish but it is what it is. Tivo is aware but has not or cannot fix it. Perhaps its in the chipset. At any rate, Amazon VOD had the same problem when they first attempted HD and ended up sending all HD in full frame 720p. Your mp4 encodes will have to be full frame as well.

    Is Pavtube capable of this? if not perhaps they will update so that it can be tivo compatible.

    Don't know if the Premiere has the same shortfall or not.
     
  18. jaredmwright

    jaredmwright New Member

    215
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    Sep 5, 2004
    Bay Area
    For those looking for another option for a conversion program which may be helpful. Yesterday giveawayoftheday.com had http://www.sothinkmedia.com/hd-video-converter/ available and I donwloaded and installed it. I don't know if it is worth the $39.00 normally, but for free it is very good. There are other free alternatives like FormatFactory which are very similar.

    It has easily customizeable settings for your conversion, and even allows changing the version of the h.264 profile which is very handy and adding and creating new custom profiles. The performance is slower than Pavtube and others (my CPU never went above 50&#37; on either of my cores on my Core2Duo 1.8Ghz), but the quality and ease of use are very nice, plus it allows simple batch conversions as well. As others have said, it uses ffmpeg and the other commonly found utilities as the main tools, but the interface is one of the best I have seen and it allows simple editing to trim the beginning and end of videos which is great.

    If anyone tries out Pavtube, Sothink, etc.. and has profiles that work well for the TiVo, please share them with others so we can build a supported profiles list.

    PM me if you would like the giveawayoftheday info to install it.
     
  19. Rdian06

    Rdian06 New Member

    463
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    Apr 12, 2008
    ffmpeg is open source and its code is covered under LGPL or GPL licensing depending on which parts of the source code you use.

    That means many, many volunteers devoted countless man hours into its development and the licensing requires those that use ffmpeg libraries in their projects to release their source code and in some cases prevents them from charging money for products based on ffmpeg.

    So the point is that pavtube's developers are STEALING from the ffmpeg community and those of us who have devoted time into working on the ffmpeg code.

    I don't care how un-user friendly ffmpeg is. Not being user friendly does not give anyone liberty to steal its code no matter how pretty a wrapper they place around it.
     
  20. wishyou0607

    wishyou0607 New Member

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    Jun 4, 2010
    i found Brorsoft Blu-Ray ripper also supports encrypted .tivo files by entering your MAK in the options.
    i have checked it out.very fast and good quality.
    you can download from brorsoft.com/blu-ray-ripper-mac/index.html
    hope it can help you
     

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