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Beta Opportunity for TiVo OTA customers

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by TiVoMargret, Jan 4, 2017.

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  1. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    Based on the design of the Mavrik it's likely that it will transcode everything just like the Tablo. So these would be smaller H.264, probably 720p, recordings. But I still don't see them uploading anything to the cloud autmatically. I think the cloud DVR part is going to be for adding "cable" channels via some srort of OTT skinny bundle.
     
  2. jcthorne

    jcthorne Active Member

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    If there are 1000 Mavrik devices in a city and 100 of them record the same OTA show then each one only needs actually upload 1% of the data required to store the show in the cloud. Think automated torrent between Mavrik devices.

    Now factor this out as more devices are in a common broadcast area. Its not really all that much data to upload on a per user basis.
     
  3. krkaufman

    krkaufman Well-Known Member

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    Interesting but seems impractical; torrents start with an identical file. Even if it were technically workable, I could see user complaints; e.g., one guy who spent hundreds of dollars to get his antenna pulling-in the best possible signal could have segments of his recording (and recording quality) replaced with the macro-blocked mess some cheap kid is OK with.

    It's also hard to imagine TiVo could pull-off the splicing and merging magic that could make this work... when they haven't been able to solve the "overlapping recordings on a single tuner" issue.
     
  4. TonyD79

    TonyD79 Well-Known Member

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    Has this been declared legal? Last I remember, each user had to have its own data unless the recording entity (in this case TiVo) got rights to share from the program provider.
     
    tim1724 and Mikeguy like this.
  5. Oakley516

    Oakley516 New Member

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    The local cable company near me has offered a cloud DVR product for years. It has some advantages, like being able to record 15 shows at once and continuing to record during a power failure in your home.

    But it has huge disadvantages, like latency, and only being able to store 75 hours of HD programming. And only recently did they offer a flash drive to enable the box to buffer an hour of live TV. Before that, it couldn't rewind the current channel you were watching. And there is the cost...Cablevision charges $16.95 a month for DVR Plus service and $10 rental fee a month for each set top box.

    From their website...

    The Multi-Room DVR* and Multi-Room DVR Plus service is similar to our traditional DVR for Optimum TV service, except that the programs you record are stored on Optimum's remote servers instead of on the hard drive within the DVR cable box. This means that you can now record your favorite programming and view those programs via any of the cable boxes within your home.

    You will not need any special equipment. If you don't have one already, a new remote control with DVR functions and a button that allows fast and easy access to the DVR menu will be mailed to you.

    With Multi-Room DVR* or Multi-Room DVR Plus, you can also:

    • Record up to (15) fifteen shows at the same time while watching anything you want.
    • Rewind Live TV**
    • Record programs and play back your recorded programs in multiple rooms.
    • Record an entire season of your favorite show.
    • Store up to 75 hours of HD programming or over 300 hours of SD programming.
    • Record any programming that’s included in your subscription.***
    • Pause and resume viewing live programming.
    • Manage access to recordings via Parental Controls.
    *Multi-Room DVR is grandfathered and no longer available to new and existing customers.
    ** Rewind functionality available to Multi-Room DVR Plus subscribers.
    ***Except for Interactive channels, Music Choice, Pay Per View, Playboy TV, Public Education Government and Video On Demand channels.
     
  6. BRiT wtfdotcom

    BRiT wtfdotcom Active Member

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    The best I can see any service provider being able to legally do is block-level deduplication of data stored on their servers. This should theoretically allow for every user to have their own version of the recording. That's assuming two different DVRs record and encode the streams the same to produce duplicate blocks. This is block level deduplication is offered on enterprise level SAN/NAS devices and might be offered in advanced filesystems like ZFS.
     
  7. jcthorne

    jcthorne Active Member

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    You guys have missed the point. With a digital broadcast every tibo in the area records the exact same bit stream. (Except for missing bits). Macro blocking is missing bits. The tivo knows full well which portions of a recording it has complete and which it does not. It would only upload those parts it has complete. There is no legal barrier to correction of the bit errors in the recorded stream. For any given user, the cloud recording could indeed be better than the local one. But its still the same recording, commercials and all.
     
  8. NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    I don't know. Tablo announced that they're working on Cloud DVR storage for use with their new Tablo Live Antenna Anywhere Stick, which connects to an OTA antenna anywhere in your house (i.e. wherever you get the best reception) and then pumps the video stream from its single tuner out over your home's wifi network to various devices for viewing with their Tablo app. (Presumably it transcodes, and if necessary de-interlaces, the video stream from MPEG2 to h.264). If you add the optional Cloud DVR service, it looks like the stream can also be uploaded to and stored on Tablo's servers, a certain number of hours stored for a monthly fee.

    If Tablo is doing this, why not TiVo with the Mavrik?
     
  9. Kimo Carew

    Kimo Carew New Member

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    Is you still looking TivoMargret? I am in Livermore and our ABC (and sub-channels) are very spotty. This would really help the cord-cutters in the Tri-valley area.
     
  10. Kimo Carew

    Kimo Carew New Member

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    Dumb question... what is TSN?
     
  11. TonyD79

    TonyD79 Well-Known Member

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    What the heck are you talking about? You think you get away from the legal requirement for individual recording (unless you have permission a la in demand or Netflix) by everyone contributing a block or two?

    If you are talking an elaborate system just to fix the occasional drop out, where is the return on investment.

    Or are you just wanting to have a technical conversation that can't happen because of legal issues?

    BTW, TiVo could negotiate their way through those issues but that would basically make them a tv provider like sling or vue or Netflix or DIRECTV.
     
  12. Kimo Carew

    Kimo Carew New Member

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    That would seem to be the endgame.
     
  13. bradleys

    bradleys It'll be fine....

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    I just do not envision TiVo providing and maintaining cloud space for consumer recordings. I think "cloud DVR" more in the way Plex is a cloud service.

    The physical space is provided by you and the MaVrik provides the online connection. You can stream content from a friends cloud and they can stream from yours.

    Setup the MaVrik, connect to physical storage, add the streaming box of your preference and you are now hosting a TiVo cloud!
     
  14. JoeKustra

    JoeKustra Cable only TCF Club

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    Not dumb. It's the number, TiVo Service Number, of your box. The first three digits are your model number also. such as 846-0001-xxxx-xxxx
     
  15. jcthorne

    jcthorne Active Member

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    In my example, every user DOES have a locally made copy of the recording. That is verified before the cloud recording is initiated. There is no requirement for every user to upload the full copy of the same data. Once the copy is sent to the cloud, the local one can be erased.

    One could go further (as with the Mavrik) and do this with only a small local buffer, uploading / verifying / matching data to what is already in the cloud as it 'records'.
     
  16. bradleys

    bradleys It'll be fine....

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    Intereting, but complicated... requires TiVo to make sure it is an identical copy - including commercials - only a copy from the same market / channel would work. Still requires TiVo to maintain cloud space at an expense that the OTA market is rarely willing to pay.

    I agree that it makes the most sense to maintain only one digital copy for consolidated access - I just don't think that is going to be a legal reality.
     
  17. bbrown9

    bbrown9 Member

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    And then there's the problem of areas with a smaller population of TiVo owners and shows that aren't recorded by many people in a given area.
     
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  18. bradleys

    bradleys It'll be fine....

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    Yeah - that is why I am thinking the Plex Model. The new Plex "cloud" DVR requires an HD Homerun tuner, The Plex software, local storage and a streaming app to access. On top of that, you can share your library with friends.

    I believe the MaVrik will be a packaged solution with identical functionality.

    The real trick for TiVo would be allowing the library to include non-protected content from full feature TiVo(s) and visa versa, - full feature TiVo able to stream from the cloud library.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2017
  19. dishrich

    dishrich Member

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  20. krkaufman

    krkaufman Well-Known Member

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    Also:
     

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