1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Audio Problem

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by Intravino, Jul 23, 2014.

  1. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
    0
    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    That will work just fine. It's the same drive TiVo uses in 2TB TiVos.

    I'd skip any further testing, or time spent on the old drive, unless you just have nothing better to do, once you have the new one. USB 2.0 is excruciatingly slow. USB 3.0 is just as fast SATA-III (When it comes to the speeds platter drives can even realistically reach, even with the high-performance drives).
     
  2. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
    0
    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    I don't think I could have made that any clearer, or any more repetitive. Yet, you were quick to take a jab when I posted the ONLY ways to fix such "scrambled software", other than writing a new image to the drive (which still results in a loss of all drive content).

    The Green Screen Boot Loop Of Death did not happen. The sky did not fall.
     
  3. Intravino

    Intravino I love OTA

    32
    0
    Nov 28, 2008
    Montreal,...
  4. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,400
    5
    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC

    The WD20EURX is the newer version of the WD20EURS, and lots of either have been successfully used in the 3 Series 3 models.

    You should be able to buy either with confidence from newegg or Amazon (just make sure you're buying directly from one of them and not from one of their "marketplace associates" or whatever they're calling them these days).

    But if you're not in a huge hurry one or the other should have one of those drive models on sale again before too terribly long for $80 or $90 including shipping.

    Just be sure to run WD's own long test on it before putting it into service.
     
  5. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
    0
    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    Yeah, my bad. Newegg's linking of "newer model available" products is messed-up. I corrected my post, and you could edit that link out of yours, so nobody gets confused.

    Sorry about that. I must have a bad capacitor somewhere, passing ripple into my accuracy checking module.
     
  6. Intravino

    Intravino I love OTA

    32
    0
    Nov 28, 2008
    Montreal,...
    I ordered the 1 TB "newer" model.

    I read on this forum that if you have a Gigabyte MB, you can have a problem with formatting or imaging the new HD. Is this true ?

    Thanks,


    Intravino
     
  7. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
    0
    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    Yes, in some cases. Make sure your BIOS is up to date, then go check for a setting that references "making a backup" of your BIOS, BIOS settings, or both "to the hard drive", or something to that effect, and disable it (once sure that is what you wish to disable. Also, do a backup of your BIOS settings to some sort of external media, if possible, before updating it.

    I'll actually invite unitron to convene his "The HPA (Host Protected Area) 101" class, or you could google/wiki your way to the details, while waiting for your drive.
     
  8. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,400
    5
    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    I'm pretty sure that GigaByte deals with BIOS backup by having 2 actual BIOS chips on the motherboard, and that the reason it puts a "Host Protected Area" (a sort of hidden partition) on the end of what it considers the "first" drive is for some sort of system files backup.

    I don't know if their newer boards still do it, or if they do but offer a way to turn it off, but the ones from about 6 years ago just do it without warning and there's no way to defeat it.

    They assume that the "first" drive is going to be the boot drive and that you're going to install Windows on it.


    It's not necessarily a problem unless for some reason you're counting on the drive being as "big" as it says it is on the label, like say if it's one of two or more that are going to be used in a RAID setup, or if there's already something on all of the drive, like say a TiVo image, that it doesn't recognize because it's not the usual DOS-style Master Boot Record and partition map, or if you're going to put a TiVo image on it and it's only as big as the drive from which the image was originally made, which is the minimum amount of space you'll need for restoring that image.

    The way around the problem is to have a drive permanently installed on the "first" partition so it can write to it and then see that it has already done so everytime the computer boots up. If it has that to keep it happy it'll leave any other connected drives alone.

    By "first" drive, I mean either the lowest number SATA port (1 or 0, depending on where they start the count) if it only has SATA ports, or the Primary Master IDE/PATA drive if the board has both PATA and SATA ports.
     
  9. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,400
    5
    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC

    The good news is that when you decide you wished you'd gone with a 2TB in the first place, WinMFS can copy the 1TB to a 2TB and then, but do it as a separate step, expand that last MFS Media partition to take advantage of the extra space.
     
  10. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
    0
    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    Just some added input:

    Gigabyte used/tried multiple ways to help insure that both the BIOS and BIOS settings could be recovered from a backup (or switched to if one bricked the system). One way was dual BIOS chips. Another way was by using the first hard drive to make a BIOS chip backup image, instead of using another BIOS chip. I recall one option for backing up all the BIOS settings was to the drive, via HPA, to insure the backup could be made regardless of OS and file system, and would not be lost if the drive was reformatted.

    There was never any "system files" being backed-up by the mainboard/BIOS. That was another feature, by which you could make a "boot drive backup capsule", which was done by software which ran inside of Windows. If the software was not installed, the HPA would never be made by it. It was like how Acronis or Paragon do the same thing, if you allow them to do so.

    I have a GA-P35C board with a single BIOS chip, and the shipping BIOS just made the HPA, and backup up the BIOS, without the user knowing about it (unless they read the manual, and assumed it was via HPA), with no option to toggle it. One BIOS update added a toggle, another made it disabled by default, with a toggle.

    The other problem is when you change settings in the BIOS, you can change what is considered the "first" drive. I could have four drives attached, make two setting changes, twice, and wind up with the HPA on all four drives attached, with only one being necessary. Turning the function off, or changing settings resulting in drive priority/enumeration changes, never removes the HPA. That must be done manually, with tools not provided by Gigabyte.

    The HPA mess can, in fact, be "defeated". It was just impossible to keep it defeated, until those boards from 6 years ago updated to a BIOS with a toggle.

    If one were to make use of a DCO (Drive Configuration Overlay), locking down the HPA function as disabled (by the drive itself), the drive would not allow a HPA, regardless of BIOS, or software, trying to make a HPA. If locking down the HPA is the only change made using a DCO, the DCO should not even need to be removed, before using the drive in a TiVo (or anything else, unless HPA being disabled is a showstopper).
     
  11. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,400
    5
    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    From the owner's manual for the GA-M61PME-S2P


    If it was just about backing up BIOS settings, I'd think that could be done on an otherwise unformatted hard drive before an OS was ever installed.
     
  12. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
    0
    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    The Xpress Recovery2 utility is optional software, like I said. It's not a BIOS-based function.

    It's easy to confuse the two. It did cause a lot of confusion.

    This was around the time that floppy disk drives were being declared dead, so everybody was coming up with ways to save things without using a floppy. Gigabyte added a function to the BIOS to boot into the HPA created by the optional software, to access the software backup HPA, but it only worked if you installed the OPTIONAL SOFTWARE in the first place.

    I forget the revision history. But, the original implementation was where you could either use BIOS-managed backup, or OS-based backup, but not both. If you used the wrong one, I believe starting-over was required.

    In my manual, the fact that it was one or the other, not both, was in the addendum section.

    We could quote each other's manuals, and move up to quoting online manuals as things evolved, or just agree that there were multiple ways Gigabyte would create a HPA on the first hard drive.

    Last words for me: Who the heck cares what was being backed up? All that matters is that if you have a Gigabyte board, the chances of HPAs being created was pretty darn good, until they disabled BIOS created HPA by default, and clarified that their recovery software used a HPA.
     
  13. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
    0
    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    The only way anybody with a Gigabyte brand board can be sure not to create a HPA when connecting drives directly via SATA/IDE connections on board:

    1. Download/install latest BIOS, read the release notes. Looking for a setting to turn off function for backing up anything to "a protected area on the hard drive".
    2. Download latest manual, check what BIOS settings and/or optional software might create a HPA.
    3. If still unsure, make sure that a connected TiVo drive, or drive about to be made a TiVo drive, is not the first drive the BIOS detects and assigns as first drive. This can be done by either keeping the system drive as first drive, or substituting a stand-in drive for the first drive, then use hdparm or Hitachi Feature Tool to remove the HPA from that drive.

    There's too many different ways Gigabyte attempted to make use of a HPA, to cover every board, every revision, every BIOS version, and every piece of optional software on the included driver/software CD/DVD, and/or from the software download area.
     
  14. Intravino

    Intravino I love OTA

    32
    0
    Nov 28, 2008
    Montreal,...
    I guess I'm safe if I have two SATA/IDE to USB adapter?
     
  15. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
    0
    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    Anything that doesn't use a direct-to-(Gigabyte)mainboard drive connection port (PATA/SATA) will protect against the HPA issues.

    USB 1.x is too slow. USB 2.0 is slow, but workable. USB 3.0 is faster than the drives are.

    Keep in mind that most USB ports, on-board, or on an add-in card, share a single controller, using an internal hub to provide multiple ports (sharing the bandwidth with every device you plug in, decreasing it).

    This is why it is best to have two docks/adapters, and two USB cards to plug them into. A dual-dock splits the rate in half, and two ports on the same controller are halved in speed. By having two docks and two cards, you get the full 480Mbit, which is about 48MB/s once you divide by 8 to make bits into bytes, and factor in 20% for non-transfer protocol overhead.

    If you are buying adapters/docks, as opposed to using what you have, I suggest getting USB 3.0 for the future, rather than spending money on something that is far past obsolete. Even if you don't have USB 3.0 ports, the USB 3.0 devices will plug into, and work with, USB 2.0 ports (at 2.0 speeds).
     
  16. Intravino

    Intravino I love OTA

    32
    0
    Nov 28, 2008
    Montreal,...
    I duplicated the original drive with the Linux boot version of MFSlive. Worked fine with no problems. The windows version did not work with Win 8 or Win 7. Worked with XP but my old computer is so slow and the HD is full of Reno 911 from my TiVo.

    Up to now, I did not see the audio problem reoccur BUT I have a new major problem, LIVE TV is now intermittent. I doesn't work always and Switching tuners does not help. Cannot record when this happens.

    What is next, Checking Voltages ?????

    Please give me your ideas !!!!!!!
     
  17. Intravino

    Intravino I love OTA

    32
    0
    Nov 28, 2008
    Montreal,...
    I just did the extended test of the original TiVO hard disk (160g) and it passed with flying colors.

    So it wasn't the hard disk.

    Power Supply or Motherboard ?
     
  18. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,400
    5
    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    As a general rule, one should be sure one has a good, properly functioning power supply before going further with troubleshooting, especially with Series 2 and Series 3 TiVos, as power supply problems can cause all sorts of strange symptoms that may appear to be something else.

    Do you have a voltmeter or access to one and any experience using one?
     
  19. Intravino

    Intravino I love OTA

    32
    0
    Nov 28, 2008
    Montreal,...
    Yes, I have access to several. I'm an electronics technologist. I replaced all of the electrolytic capacitors on the PS in March and 3 or 4 were bad (tested with LCR meter Instek LCR-916).

    What are the voltages present on the TiVo PS ? 5 volts and 12 volts ?

    I saw the new PS at Weaknees and at $ 100 bucks, they are jippers.

    Thanks,
     
  20. squint

    squint New Member

    846
    0
    Jun 15, 2008
    3.3, 5, and 12V.

    If your power supply is OK then it could be software corruption or a motherboard issue.

    The former is fairly easy to test. Just download a 'fresh' disk image and write it to a different drive, swap the drives, do a clear and delete everything and see if the problem persists.

    I have a Series 3 OLED that has intermittent audio "pops" unless the CPU is given additional cooling. I suspect failing solder joints. I suppose if they got worse the symptoms could also worsen and I could lose audio altogether.
     

Share This Page