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Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D "The only light in the darkness" OAD 4/22/2014

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by milo99, Apr 22, 2014.

  1. Apr 23, 2014 #41 of 204
    Graymalkin

    Graymalkin Grumpy Poster

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    I, too, thought Skye would immediately suspect Melinda and not Ward. Because that's how TV script writers work.
     
  2. Apr 23, 2014 #42 of 204
    Jagman_sl

    Jagman_sl New Member

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    He does seem to suggest that he just finished talking to Koenig before walking in the room.

    When Ward and Skye are talking in the hallway after Skye has discovered Koenig's body she says they should tell Koenig that they're leaving and Ward tells her that he just spoke to Koenig and that he's on the way to open the hangar doors for them. That tells her beyond the shadow of a doubt that Ward did it.
     
  3. Apr 23, 2014 #43 of 204
    cmontyburns

    cmontyburns Excellent.

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    She knew it was Ward from the fresh blood on his neck. Once she found Koenig dead, she connected the dots.
     
  4. Apr 23, 2014 #44 of 204
    john4200

    john4200 Active Member

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    Actually, he does not. As I said, there is no indication of the relative time of the two events: Ward talking to Koenig, and Melinda leaving. Even if Ward did just talk to Koenig a few minutes before talking to Skye, there was no indication given that Melinda was certainly gone before then. For all Skye was told, it could be that Koenig, Melinda, and Ward were talking, Melinda said she was leaving, and then Koenig left with Melinda to walk her out and Ward came to Skye.

    But all of this is rather beside the point that I originally made which is that Skye did not consider for even a second that Melinda might have been the killer and traitor. Skye saw Koenig's body, pauses briefly, and then says "Ward".
     
  5. Apr 23, 2014 #45 of 204
    john4200

    john4200 Active Member

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    You are missing the point. That would be a rational conclusion to draw from the available evidence. But it was not proof, especially since Skye had already appeared to accept Ward's explanation of his wound re-opening. Even if it were stronger evidence, my point stands that Skye concluded "Ward" within a few seconds of seeing Koenig's dead body, despite the fact that she was just kissing Ward and telling him he was a good person a few minutes ago, and despite Skye's animosity towards Melinda.
     
  6. Apr 23, 2014 #46 of 204
    cmontyburns

    cmontyburns Excellent.

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    I know you like to tell people in these threads that they're wrong, but you're going to have to take your own medicine this time. There were two points to the blood-on-the-neck scene:

    1. Give Ward and Skye a reason to be separated so she could find Koenig;
    2. Make sure Ward would be implicated, and not the absent Melinda.

    You can argue that real people would not behave that way, or that it was poorly written (the scene you reference where Skye and Ward kissed was cringe-inducing), and you'd certainly have ground to stand on. But you seem to be arguing that the show did not justify Skye's conclusion that Ward killed Koenig, when of course it did. Again, there was that whole scene setting it up. This is not a Tom Clancy novel. It's instead one of the most underwritten things on TV. Plot points are set up and dealt with in just a few sentences and in brief scenes. This was actually one of the least-ridiculous things the show presented this week.
     
  7. Apr 23, 2014 #47 of 204
    john4200

    john4200 Active Member

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    Wrong. I do not know how I could be more clear, but you keep missing the point.
     
  8. Apr 23, 2014 #48 of 204
    Jagman_sl

    Jagman_sl New Member

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    Granted, he doesn't give exact times for anything, but he does come across as being completely "in the know" with the others' whereabouts. He spoke with confidence that he knew exactly where Koenig was, which, to me at least, does suggest he had recently spoken to Koenig. I do see how you feel that May leaving right before a body was found should suggest that she could be the killer. But I think we're supposed to believe that Skye's instincts are maybe a little more finely honed than most anybody else's. TV trope...

    Of course, if there's one thing that these threads have taught me it's that if somebody on a show guesses incorrectly they're an idiot, but if they do guess correctly it should have been impossible for them to do so. :)
     
  9. Apr 23, 2014 #49 of 204
    JYoung

    JYoung Series 3

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    Yes he does.
    Ward clearly implies he was just talking to Koenig just before he came to see Skye (who he said was sending the Fridge information to the CIA) because it suits his purpose the best.

    Now you could say that he missed an opportunity to frame May.

    But don't forget that his objective is to get Skye out of the Providence Bunker with a minimum of fuss so that she can willingly decrypt the hard drive.

    Ward wants Skye relaxed and trusting of him so he tells her that he just saw Koenig (in response to her query) talking to the other agencies so she doesn't wonder where Eric is.

    He also tells her that May's gone so Skye doesn't wonder where she is either.
    Embroiling Skye in a murder situation doesn't suit his objective so he doesn't push the blame on May.

    So he implies that May left before he just saw Koenig.

    Of course, Skye finds Koenig's body, remembers the blood on Ward's ,and concludes that he's a traitor before he can get her out of the bunker.

    Now, she should consider the possibility that Ward also killed May but that's not going to help her much in her current situation.
     
  10. Apr 23, 2014 #50 of 204
    john4200

    john4200 Active Member

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    No, there were no times given when Ward talked to Skye about those events. Assuming "just before" is not a time of an event. You could just as easily assume Ward talked to Melinda "just before" he talked to Skye, and he talked to Koenig "just before" he talked to Melinda. Or they could have been simultaneous. It is all assumption, since Ward gave no indication of the relative times of those events.

    And you are completely missing the point, unless you think Skye actually memorized what Ward said and then played it back in her head and made a judgment call during the few seconds from when she found Koenig's dead body and when she concluded "Ward". And if you really think that is what is going on in that few seconds, then we don't have anything to talk about.
     
  11. Apr 23, 2014 #51 of 204
    Fl_Gulfer

    Fl_Gulfer Tivo's R Us

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    Fl.Gulf
    +1
     
  12. Apr 24, 2014 #52 of 204
    smbaker

    smbaker Well-Known Member

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    Somehow I don't think that's going to work on him... ;)

    There's a limited number of people who could have killed Koenig. Ward's circumstances and behavior were suspicious. That's sufficient for a television character like Skye to assume that Ward is the killer and not Melinda May or bigfoot or some stealthy secret hydra boogeyman.

    Personally, I think an average real person might have assumed that someone else had infiltrated the base rather than suddenly assuming her trusted friend, colleague, and love interest was a secret enemy double agent. But, these aren't real people. They're television characters.
     
  13. Apr 24, 2014 #53 of 204
    john4200

    john4200 Active Member

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    It is certainly not going to "work" by saying that an argument that I did not make was wrong. cmontyburns totally missed the point I was making, and then went on to "prove" that something he imagined I was saying was wrong.
     
  14. Apr 24, 2014 #54 of 204
    Peter000

    Peter000 Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    I think everyone "gets" what you're saying, it's just that they disagree or don't care.
     
  15. Apr 24, 2014 #55 of 204
    john4200

    john4200 Active Member

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    Since no less than three people have argued with my posts about the details of the evidence implicating Ward rather than addressing my point, it is quite obvious that not everyone "gets" it.

    EDIT: add bitbyblit to the list, making at least four
     
  16. Apr 24, 2014 #56 of 204
    NJChris

    NJChris Kermie Loves Elmo

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    OMG..... move on already.
     
  17. Apr 24, 2014 #57 of 204
    john4200

    john4200 Active Member

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    What exactly do you mean by that?
     
  18. Apr 24, 2014 #58 of 204
    NJChris

    NJChris Kermie Loves Elmo

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    Riverdale,...
  19. Apr 24, 2014 #59 of 204
    BitbyBlit

    BitbyBlit .

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    On top of that, Ward was the only one that had real motive to kill Koenig right when he was getting surveillance video of the Fridge. We know Skye already thought it was weird that the video showed absolutely nothing going on, so seeing Koenig dead caused her realization of what had happened to fall into place.

    Of course, "Ward" was just her initial gut reaction. While she was sobbing in the bathroom, she could very well have also considered May as a suspect. But she would have rejected May for two reasons:

    1. May would only have wanted to cover up the surveillance video if she were covering for someone else. But why didn't Ward run into that person?

    2. Why didn't May take the Bus? That would have been a great asset to Hydra.

    But still, once she got over the shock of Ward most likely being a Hydra agent, she needed to confirm it.

    That's why she watched his reaction when he opened the closet. Innocent Ward would have wondered what that penny was doing there, gone in, and discovered Koenig's body. But guilty Ward didn't want Skye to know Koenig was dead, so he acted like the penny was nothing interesting, and closed the closet before Skye could see inside.

    And finally, to confirm her suspicions beyond any doubt whatsoever, she asked Ward specifically about Koenig, and his answer made his allegiance absolutely clear.
     
  20. Apr 24, 2014 #60 of 204
    JYoung

    JYoung Series 3

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    No, we're saying that with what was laid out, there's no real reason to consider May when it's Ward who lied to her.

    If you want to play Johnny Cochran and get into the extreme minutia instead of seeing the big picture though, have at it.
     

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