1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

4K HD and Tivo

Discussion in 'TiVo Roamio DVRs' started by ljknight, Nov 26, 2013.

  1. Nov 26, 2013 #1 of 161
    ljknight

    ljknight New Member

    9
    0
    Sep 6, 2013
    What are the chances that these new Roamio's will be easily upgradable to support 4K HD?
    I have read several articles recently, stating that 4K content is not that far down the road in 2014.

    With the cost of getting to 4K viewing, I would hate to buy 2 Roamio's now, only to need to buy more in 18-24months.
    That is assuming Tivo can have product out that quickly.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Nov 26, 2013 #2 of 161
    anthonymoody

    anthonymoody New Member

    199
    0
    Apr 29, 2008
    I'd put my money on zero before anything else.
     
  3. Nov 26, 2013 #3 of 161
    atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Active Member

    5,726
    20
    Oct 11, 2005
    Rochester NY
    Viable 4K TV content (fps of 60 or higher) is going to require HDMI 2.0 connectors, which nothing has right now and why the Samsung 4K TVs broke out the HDMI ports (they are not in the TV, instead you have an add on board with all the ports) that way you will be able to buy a replacement board when 2.0 HDMI is available.

    So no, I do not believe TiVo or anything else using the current 1.4a HDMI has the ability to deliver viable native 4K content to a 4K TV (I believe the current HDMI standard tops out at 30 fps with 4k content which is really not acceptable).

    Also Native 4K content is likely to only be available using a new compression standard (h.265 I believe is what it is called) and who knows what can support that, again my guess is nothing out there now).
     
  4. Nov 26, 2013 #4 of 161
    aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

    19,173
    21
    Jan 31, 2002
    Northern...
    You'll need specialized chips to support h.265 which the TiVo of course does not have.

    HEck I wouldn't even want most of the 4K sets that are for sale right now because they do not have HDMI 2.0 and AFAIK most of them cannot be upgraded.
     
  5. Nov 26, 2013 #5 of 161
    Itproman

    Itproman New Member

    47
    0
    Dec 30, 2012
    Hastings,Ont...
    Either way,a lot of TV Broadcasters have only just gone digital,meaning 720p,or 1080i in the last few years and 2 of them here in Ontario,Canada,only just this year.

    This is a considerable expense,when(so they claim),less than 6%(some of them say 1%)of the poplulation watches TV via antenna,and believe it was an unnecessary expense,or they were forced by the FCC and CRTC into upgrading.

    They're certainly not going to cough up dough to go 4K just like that.
     
  6. Nov 26, 2013 #6 of 161
    atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Active Member

    5,726
    20
    Oct 11, 2005
    Rochester NY
    I don't expect OTA broadcasts to be 4K for decades, if ever. In fact I would say the chances of OTA being dropped all together are as great as it is that OTA will go 4K.
     
  7. Nov 26, 2013 #7 of 161
    tomhorsley

    tomhorsley Active Member

    1,167
    4
    Jul 22, 2010
    I've been following 4K monitors for computers for a while, and it is still quite difficult to drive a 4K monitor at 60Hz even with high end video cards, mostly because the monitors have very weird configurations. The Sharp monitor, for instance looks like two separate monitors, each with 1920x2160 resolution - a resolution most video cards don't know how to support without firmware upgrades, etc. It is impossible to believe that the hardware which has to exist today in a TiVo could be adapted in any way to drive a 4K display when even computer interface standards haven't been really finalized.
     
  8. Nov 26, 2013 #8 of 161
    lessd

    lessd Active Member

    7,695
    5
    Jan 23, 2005
    CT
    For 4K to make any difference, assuming you had some type of 4K source, would you not need a big screen like over 65", and the number of people that have a HDTV over 65" and can fit in a screen over 65" is a small % of US households. Of all the people I know only 1 has a screen over 65" (I have a 80" and the picture is so great that I would not spend the money on 4K for that size screen)
     
  9. Nov 26, 2013 #9 of 161
    atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Active Member

    5,726
    20
    Oct 11, 2005
    Rochester NY
    I agree and even at 65" you would have to sit within a few feet to be able to see the increased resolution even if the content was available, in fact many people don't sit close enough to their TVs to be able to see the difference between 720p & 1080p (including me as I am 14ft from a 50" TV).
     
  10. Nov 26, 2013 #10 of 161
    crxssi

    crxssi Veteran TiVo User

    2,791
    0
    Apr 5, 2010
    Zero

    It is all marketing, just trying to get people to throw away equipment and buy new again and justify even higher prices. I think I read that more than half the population can't tell the difference between 480P and 720P with much more than half not being able to tell between 720P and 1080P. I suspect very few can really tell the difference between 1080P and 4K, especially if the TV is not over 70" and they are not sitting a few feet from it.

    OTA doesn't even support 1080P.
    Few cable companies even offer all their stations in HD yet.
    Almost no cable companies support 4K.
    No consumer discs support 4K and won't for a long while.

    My guess is 4K is going to go nowhere for many years except maybe in a very tiny niche market for videophiles with huge 80+" displays.
     
  11. Nov 27, 2013 #11 of 161
    aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

    19,173
    21
    Jan 31, 2002
    Northern...
    The BD association is planning on having a finalized BD spec sometime late this year or early next year for 4K with the hope to have the first 4K disc based players out in the second half of 2014. I read it's supposed to be 3 layer 100GB discs that they plan to use.
     
  12. Nov 27, 2013 #12 of 161
    lessd

    lessd Active Member

    7,695
    5
    Jan 23, 2005
    CT
    I bet 4K will more like SVHS was in its time, a consumer flop for the most part.
     
  13. Nov 27, 2013 #13 of 161
    anthonymoody

    anthonymoody New Member

    199
    0
    Apr 29, 2008

    I'll take that bet. Why? Because 4K will become the norm just like 1080 is today (it's essentially impossible to find a 720 set nowadays). They'll just release 4K discs which will downconvert to 1080 if that's what your set handles.
     
  14. Nov 27, 2013 #14 of 161
    anthonymoody

    anthonymoody New Member

    199
    0
    Apr 29, 2008
    Until you see native 4K content on an 84" screen ;)
     
  15. Nov 27, 2013 #15 of 161
    atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Active Member

    5,726
    20
    Oct 11, 2005
    Rochester NY
    I believe TV manufactures will likely keep moving towards more 4K TVs as away to demand a premium price. But until HDMI 2.0 and blu-ray disks are available that can provide a native 4K movie; people are wasting their money buying into 4k at all. The issue with people not being able to see the difference on smaller sets (like anything less than 65") will remain forever so the tech will have to get real cheap for the masses to want anything to do with it. I don't know what band width will be needed to stream 4K but I am guessing it will be years and maybe decades before the Satellite and Cable companies will be willing to upgrade all their equipment to handle h.265 and like I said above I don't believe it will ever come to OTA broadcasts.

    So from where I sit the market where 4K makes or will make any sense is very small. Basically people with large (65"+) sets, with great high speed Internet that comes with unlimited band width, or who want to buy 4K blu-ray disks.
     
  16. Nov 27, 2013 #16 of 161
    slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

    3,506
    19
    Sep 19, 2006
    In the ATL
    4K, like 3D, is another TV tech pushed by marketing and not by consumer interest. It's just another in a long line of features that are far ahead of what most folks care about, much less whether any source material takes advantage of it.

    The good thing is that we'll all get it for cheap eventually since it will just be another feature on every set you can buy.
     
  17. Nov 27, 2013 #17 of 161
    lessd

    lessd Active Member

    7,695
    5
    Jan 23, 2005
    CT

    84" is bigger than 65" but how many people will have HDTV that big, it's a space and money problem, and space may be more of a problem than money for big TVs. Most of my friends have 45" to 55" size HDTVs so they can avoid a divorce from the wife.
     
  18. Nov 27, 2013 #18 of 161
    aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

    19,173
    21
    Jan 31, 2002
    Northern...
    Best buy sells over 100 720p sets. Something over 20% of the sets they have available for sale online are 720p. iF I remember correctly. If not then it is even more that they sell. Although the largest size they sell is around 55".

    Edit: also I've read that the big push for h.265 use will be in cell phones. Once the chips are available they plan on incorporating it into new cell phones. But this is mainly a bandwidth saving measure, not anything to do with 4k.
     
  19. Nov 27, 2013 #19 of 161
    series5orpremier

    series5orpremier Active Member

    1,031
    9
    Jul 5, 2013
    There's a good chance 4K will quickly go the way of betamax. There's just no content for it and none of the current major content distribution channels are planning for it. From what I've heard/read the next big thing in consumer televisions will probably be OLED.
     
  20. Nov 27, 2013 #20 of 161
    atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Active Member

    5,726
    20
    Oct 11, 2005
    Rochester NY
    I agree that OLED is likely the actual next big thing in TVs - at least for anyone who actually cares about picture quality. The issues appear to be that OLED is actually much harder and more costly tech than just pushing a LCD to 4K, so my guess is, as with most things, it's all about the money, manufactures are pushing 4K LCD TVs because they think they will be able to make more money.

    Regarding content, there actually is plenty of 4K content as most new movies are shot in 8K and I don't think any are shot in less than 4K. The problem is finding an affordable away to deliver the 4k content to a 4k TV - which is just about impossible now.
     

Share This Page