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4-tuner OTA compatible tivo's

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by jollygrunt777, Sep 6, 2012.

  1. jfh3

    jfh3 New Member

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    I've built an HTPC and have Silicon Dust tuners on my network, but I abandoned the idea of replacing my Tivos because I thought the amount of tinkering/maintenance would be too high to use them as anything more than toys. It's cool to have, but it's certainly not mainstream. Heck, most just settle for whatever the generic cable company DVR is.


    I have two Elites and two Premieres, so I have more TiVo tuners than I really need, but I would still like to see cooperative scheduling (I live in the Mountain Time Zone, so I have to start every network program two minutes early (or maybe it's just a Denver local issue). That would be the single biggest addition to base function in a long time. As others have said, with MRS and the Stream, it no longer matters where a recording resides, but it can still take a lot of work setting up Season Passes and scheduling to get those recordings in the first place.
     
  2. mr.unnatural

    mr.unnatural Active Member

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    Ellicott...
    Sure, it would have helped. Considering it doesn't yet exist in Tivoland doesn't do me or anyone else much good, hence the desire for a one box solution. WMC with media extenders allows for cooperative scheduling because it's all done via one primary PC. You can schedule shows remotely from any extender networked with the HTPC. In other words, HTPCs with WMC have offered what Tivo owners have been wanting from day one. Chalk that one up in the "pro" column for HTPCs.;)

    Seriously? You have got way too much time on your hands.:rolleyes:
     
  3. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    My current PCs are old. The only things I've built in the last few years have been a couple of unRAID servers. My PCs are over four years old and the CPUs are rated at something like 100 watts with a Core 2 Quad and an old Phenom 4 core processor.

    This has been the longest time during the last seventeen years that I have gone without upgrading my PCs. Since I have been on a kick to use less power the last couple of years I guess I should have checked into upgrading my systems. At this point I was planning on waiting for Windows 8 to be released so I can do clean installs. BUt if I could get my power usage for each PC down 40% I would be very pleased.
     
  4. turbobozz

    turbobozz New Member

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    I built my current desktop in mid 2010 purposefully to do some gaming and to be a WMC server.
    At the time I went with a Lynnfield CPU and an ATI 58xx class GPU because they could both step down in power significantly better than other available options at the time.
    I also used massive heatsink for better passive cooling, and the mobo was capable of spinning up fans as needed.
    I've never put one of the power meters on it to see how much it pulls doing different things though.... maybe I should do that sometime.
    I believe most of the of the more recent CPUs from both Intel and AMD handle power step downs pretty well automatically.
    Same for Nvidia and AMD GPUs, I think. (If you intend to do some gaming.)
     
  5. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    The XL4 in combination with the upcoming TiVo Mini will offer the same ability. You have one central TiVo with 4 tuners and the Mini is an extender that can watch anything on the host TiVo and schedule recordings on it. It'll be very similar to the HTPC/XBox setup except the boxes involved will require a LOT less power to operate and the combination should be a bit cheaper.

    Dan
     
  6. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    Obviously you have some sort of resentment of the Premiere platform and/or the fact that the S3 platform was abandoned. Nothing I can do to help with that other then say... For me the Premiere units work just fine so the added features make them an upgrade not a "downgrade".

    Nothing I record from TV is important enough that I'd be devastated if one of my TiVos failed. It would suck, but I'd live. It's not like we're talking about irreplaceable family photos or financial data.

    I'm hoping that support for PC streaming will be added to a future release of TiVo Desktop, but I will concede that is a limitation. Although the DVD/BluRay limitation apples to MCE recorded shows as well. Anything that is encrypted is locked into the ecosystem that recorded it. That doesn't only apply to TiVo.

    TiVo uses hardware based encryption on the TiVo itself, they can't just pass that along to a PC. They invented the current encryption scheme as a way of converting their hardware based encryption to something transferable to a PC. Their mistake was providing a DirectShow filter that basically strips the encryption but leaves the original stream intact. That allowed hackers to reverse engineer the encryption and ultimately break it. No way to put that cat back into the bag at this point.

    Dan
     
  7. mr.unnatural

    mr.unnatural Active Member

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    Ellicott...
    I agree. It will be a boon to Tivo users to be able to share content without having to buy additional Tivos. The only caveat is that you still don't have OTA reception. Still, kudos to Tivo for providing a less expensive alternative to MRV. If the Tivo Mini also offers a UI that permits access and control of the primary Tivo then this would finally provide the cooperative scheduling function for multiple locations. Tivo now needs to come up with an add-on OTA tuner module that connects via USB or the eSATA interface.

    OTOH, it's a bit of a catch22 situation. I'm no big fan of extenders simply due to the fact that you're putting all of your eggs in one basket. You're assuming the primary Tivo or HTPC will never go offline, which we all know does happen on occasion. When it does, the household goes into a turmoil until they get their TV back again.
     
  8. steve614

    steve614 what ru lookin at?

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    He only resents that the Premieres aren't hackable like the Series 3 machines. ;)
     
  9. magnus

    magnus Tivo User

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    funny thing is that we now have a free space indicator and Hulu plus! That's just awesome.
     
  10. magnus

    magnus Tivo User

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    You can't stream you Amazon content from one box to the other though. I'm not sure why that is.
     
  11. shwru980r

    shwru980r Active Member

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    From what I've read in previous threads, the S3 can be modified to disable the copy protection codes so that anything can be copied from the Tivo to a disk array for archiving. Copy protection can't be disabled on the S4.


    I agree, but from what I've read in previous threads, there is some programming that is very rare and may have only been available to record once in the past decade with the copy protection flag set and is not available digitally anywhere else. In this case an S3 that has been modified to disable the copy protection is needed to capture the program and archive it for future viewing.
     
  12. mattack

    mattack Active Member

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    See, that's your opinion, but to the rest of us (and I definitely think it's closer to the average consumer than your viewpoint), the multiple tuners are MORE necessary _because_ of the OTA channels than cable channels. (I am including the cable rebroadcasts of the "broadcast" networks, not just literally OTA with an antenna.)

    The cable channels DO typically rerun their shows many times within the week, so multiple tuners are FAR less needed, IMHO. The LACK of reruns _and_ the stupid timeslot overlap business (though that is also necessary on cable -- e.g. MTV programming can slip either direction several minutes, all Discovery, Biography, and E! channel shows need 1 minute end pad), are what make multiple tuners necessary for broadcast networks.

    The most popular shows _are_ still on the broadcast networks, even though you apparently don't like them.

    Heck, I don't like the lack of OTA tuners in the Premiere 4/XL4, but I'm not currently using them in my Tivo HD, so will grit my teeth and deal with being "tied" to cable, for the additional tuners. (I'm hoping one of those BB 10-12% off coupons I keep hearing about comes out sometime soon, then I'll use my Viggle-earned BB GCs to get a Premiere 4 free, and pay just for lifetime.)
     
  13. mr.unnatural

    mr.unnatural Active Member

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    Ellicott...
    He's not alone in that assessment.
     
  14. Jonathan_S

    Jonathan_S Well-Known Member

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    Probably why there are standards for gaming video cards to use 6 pin or 8 pin sockets to plug in additional power connections from the power supply; rather than trying to power themselves exclusively off the motherboard's power traces.
     
  15. mr.unnatural

    mr.unnatural Active Member

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    Ellicott...
    After all the discussion about HTPCs being power hogs I thought I'd invest in a Kill A Watt meter and see just what this beast was using. So far it appears to average about 85 watts. The CPU is an Intel i5-660 (73W dual core) with an ASRock H55DE3 motherboard and 8GB RAM. I don't put mine to sleep and just let it run 24/7. 85W is slightly less power than a desk lamp with a 100 watt bulb. I'm going to leave the meter connected for a longer period to see how that equates to kilowatt-hours.
     
  16. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    100 watts!!!! Or are you talking about an incandescent bulb? My Floor lamps use 72 watts and put out the equivalent light of a 300 watt incandescent bulb. Aren't they supposed to finally start the phase out of the power hogging incandescent bulbs next month?

    Bottom line, even 85 watts adds up over time. My power usage is noticeably lower now with two Elites and one two Tuner Premiere, than when I was using eight, two tuner premieres.

    Although the biggest change wwas when I stopped running my servers 24/7. Those draw over 200 watts each since I use so many hard drives and external cases.

    But I guess the bottom line is the power usage doesn't really matter as long as the user is comfortable with whatever it is. I know I'm uncomfotabel now with my main PC drawing 140 watts. I really need to purchase a tiny PC that can still use a corei7 but use 40% less power. i don't need to be using these large boxes any more for my main PCs. with the electricty rates around here rising 5% to 10% each year I've been try to use less energy from my devices.
     
  17. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    TiVos use about 22 watts each, so a 4 tuner Premiere uses 1/4 as much power. I know your system is more capable, but that's still a big difference. And the only extender available for an HTPC, the XBox 360, draws about 120 watts when playing a video. Those aren't used as much, so not as big of a deal, but still much higher then a second TiVo. And I'm assuming the Mini will draw even less.

    Dan
     
  18. mr.unnatural

    mr.unnatural Active Member

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    Ellicott...
    Geeezzz Dude, don't have a cow for god's sake. I was just using the 100-watt bulb for comparison purposes.

    Keep in mind that my current setup is at least a couple years old and the hardware isn't the most energy efficient. Lots of current CPU models use far less energy as do other PC components. After seeing the actual numbers I'll be sure to concentrate on a more efficient configuration next time around. FWIW, the extra cost for electricity is well worth it to me for what my HTPC can do when compared to my old Tivos.

    If you want more you'll have to pay a little more. It's not worth bickering over nickels and dimes. Let's face it, both Tivos and HTPCs are luxury items and not necessities. If you're really that concerned about pinching pennies then you probably shouldn't own either one.

    What's amazing is that almost everyone has a cell phone of some kind these days, which is a total luxury item unless you use it in your line of work. I don't hear see anyone griping about the cost of cell phones to the point where they want to cut the wireless cord. Aside from a car or mortgage payment and possibly other utility bills, it's probably the biggest monthly bill people pay, but ask them if they'd be willing to part with it and chances are you'll get a "Hell, No!" as a response. It all boils down to what it's worth to you and what you're willing to pay for the convenience.

    FYI, I just downloaded the new Ceton Companion app for my Android phone and it's awesome. I haven't had much time to play with it yet but it lets me connect with my HTPC from anywhere. I can check my recording schedule and program guide and set up recordings in real time as well as other things I haven't explored yet. I scheduled my HTPC to record Monday Night Football from the phone and it showed up in the schedule by the time I walked into the next room to check it.
     
  19. mattack

    mattack Active Member

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    I gripe about the cost of cell phones. I only have an expensive one due to work. Before that, I had a $5/month Virgin Mobile phone… and would likely try to find the cheapest way to go iPhone if I didn't have a work one anymore. (i.e. I'd do the $30/month ones at MOST, but possibly go back to a crappy phone and get an iPod touch instead.)
     
  20. wwsmith

    wwsmith New Member

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    Well, I've read through this entire thread and I surprised that nobody has mentioned the usefulness of OTA everytime a cable company has a dispute with one of the local channels. Right now Optimum / Cablevision is having a dispute with WPIX. With a Tivo HD I can simply add back in the OTA channel in the setup screean and not be dependent on the cable company to get my recordings. I would have upgraded to a four tuner box some time ago if OTA was available on those. I suppose I could still do it and move the two tuner box somewhere else, but I'd much rather have a 4 tuner box with OTA, so I am going to stick with the my upgraded HD for now.
     

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