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20.4.1 Release Notes

Discussion in 'TiVo Roamio DVRs' started by TiVoMargret, Apr 3, 2014.

  1. Apr 7, 2014 #161 of 442
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    Care to share what "spaghetti code" means with the rest of the class? A link to a good page on it would be appreciated, if it's not quick and easy to explain to the non-coders here.
     
  2. Apr 7, 2014 #162 of 442
    KevinG

    KevinG Member

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    Sep 3, 2003
    Mt. Laurel, NJ.
    Two issues to report, but I think they've been heard already. Just wanted to add my details.

    My pro (which was updated) has been rebooted only once (on it's own to do the update). Minis in the house have been updated, and rebooted multiple times now. The minis continue to "lose connection to the Roamio". Sometimes while watching a recorded show from the Roamio, sometimes it can't get anything from the Roamio (so you can't even see your recorded shows). This is a big PITA, since my whole household revolves around one Pro, and a bunch of minis...

    Second. Certainly not as big a deal. But the Pro seems to mute audio any time it wants to pop up a banner. For example. Game of Thrones which was recording, and Silicon Valley which was set to record. While watching live, Game of Thrones ended, and the Roamio popped up a banner to show that it was starting to record Silicon Valley. It did this twice (for some reason), and both times the audio was muted while the banner was on the screen. I don't recall ever noticing this in previous releases.

    -Kevin
     
  3. Apr 7, 2014 #163 of 442
    morac

    morac Cat God

    8,959
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    Mar 14, 2003
    NJ
    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=spaghetti+code
     
  4. Apr 7, 2014 #164 of 442
    JohnS-MI

    JohnS-MI Member

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    Jan 25, 2014
    SE MI
    Hard to find a "good" page on it as it is a "bad" thing. It is tangled, poorly structured code that is hard to read, understand, debug. Attempts to update, improve, or fix it can be nightmarish. 'Nuff said?

    Early computer languages lacked the features to support well-structured code, and memory was expensive enough that tricks to save a few bytes were highly valued, so most code was spaghetti code. Now it is a very "your baby's ugly" thing to say to a software guy.
     
  5. Apr 7, 2014 #165 of 442
    lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Active Member

    8,081
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    May 6, 2002
    John's...
    IMNSHO, it was mostly the result of multiple mods to code that should have, at some point, been totally rewritten - but who had the time for that?

    I disagree. Even in assembly language, it was possible to write fairly well structured code.

    Even the best programmers can only do so much if the design/development/testing process is flawed.
     
  6. Apr 7, 2014 #166 of 442
    JohnS-MI

    JohnS-MI Member

    468
    3
    Jan 25, 2014
    SE MI
    Testing? Do you mean inviting customers to sign up to receive new release on a priority basis?

    I would agree the programmer can only do so much. "Well-structured" really starts at the requirements capture and system design level.

    Sure, good code can go bad from too many patches, but there was also a lot of code that was bad from the first GOTO.
     
  7. Apr 7, 2014 #167 of 442
    morac

    morac Cat God

    8,959
    23
    Mar 14, 2003
    NJ
    It really depends on how well the code was written originally and who worked on it since.

    I've seen code that was just bad from the start, but I've also seen code that was pretty good to start with until it was assigned to a poor coder after which it was a mess.

    Then there's the case where the code might be great, but isn't documented at all (to save time). It doesn't matter how good a coder you are in that case, if you have deadlines to meet and have to simultaneously figure out what the code is doing and update it, mistakes will be made. Especially if the original coder has long since left the company.

    I don't know which of those TiVo falls under.
     
  8. Apr 7, 2014 #168 of 442
    anthonymoody

    anthonymoody New Member

    199
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    Apr 29, 2008
    My mini lost its connection to the Plus after the update. I had to do the same procedure to get it back as I did the very first time I hooked it up:

    1) remove Ethernet switch between Ethernet wall jack and mini, connecting mini directly to wall jack
    2) restart mini, connection to Plus now successful
    3) re-insert switch into the chain, connection holds

    Not sure why but my switch interferes with the initial connection bt the mini and plus, but once connected, not subsequent connections.
     
  9. Apr 7, 2014 #169 of 442
    spaldingclan

    spaldingclan Member

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    Aug 22, 2012
    that's what I mean...the Tivo sounds cut out in the menu's. Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't
     
  10. Apr 7, 2014 #170 of 442
    worachj

    worachj Active Member

    1,144
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    Oct 13, 2006
    Eagan, MN
    Same here, on both my updated Roamio and Premiere.
     
  11. Apr 7, 2014 #171 of 442
    jackief

    jackief New Member

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    Nov 15, 2013
    I think (fingers crossed) my problem with my mini might be fixed. I was having problems with video out via component breakout cable to my slingbox concurrently with the hdmi output to my tv. Someone in the mini forum suggested rebooting the slingbox. I did that and it didn't work, so then I rebooted mini yet again, and it seems to be working now. I want my kids to try it on their browsers to confirm, they are the ones who actually use it.

    Here's my explanation of spaghetti code. Think of "good" code as following a straight line between step 1, step 2, etc. Another function will have its own line for the steps it performs. Now picture a bowl of spaghetti with all the "lines" all mixed up following no order, overlapping, etc. That's what can happen in some programs, in various ways as explained above
     
  12. Apr 7, 2014 #172 of 442
    lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Active Member

    8,081
    2
    May 6, 2002
    John's...
    I really wish people would stop pointing at the DirecTV DVR and saying that it has been doing single tuner for overlapping recordings on the same channel from day one. It's one thing to design a system from the start to do something. It's quite another to add that functionality to an existing system.

    Here's what I think might have happened. Some shining example of the "Peter Principle" in action noticed that the DirecTV DVR could do it, decided that a TiVo should to be able to do it, and either wasn't informed of or ignored the flaw in this thinking. Some developer figured out a way to kludge the system to add it and neither he nor the testers (assuming any real testing was done) considered the scheduling end cases. And yes, I'm ignoring the (IMHO minor) a/v glitch problem.
     
  13. Apr 7, 2014 #173 of 442
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    Well, excuse me, "cat god", for asking for lwpcomp's own explanation/perspective of how he felt the term applied with TiVo, not just a snarky "how hard is it to google?" script. Although, my last thought was that somebody would do exactly what you did.

    I was putting my already 140+ open tab browsing session into hibernate, while I "hibernated" for some sleep, and thought it might benefit everybody to know things from his perspective, not just a generic google search, which can often yield results so generic, or so far away from what a person meant when they used an unfamiliar term.

    The very reason I have enough tabs open to consume all my available resources (and crash my laptop 3x/day) is due to the number of google search result and wikipedia search result tabs I have open to do my own search-and-learn work, on anything I'm not familiar with on multiple fronts, very little of which is TiVo-related, at this time. I'm spinning a lot of plates learning how to make proper Win7 and Win8 deployment images, and get them where they need to go.

    Once again, here I am going off-topic, and creating clutter, explaining myself, while doing my best not to take a slap in the face personally.

    I did say "for the rest of the class", to try and keep it short, and now fully expect the usual fallout I tend to get when I switch from "quick and to the point" mode to "explaining myself to those looking down their noses at me" mode...
     
  14. Apr 7, 2014 #174 of 442
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    Thank you for taking the time to explain, which you did in the way I was hoping for/looking for.

    I agree with your perspective, and it's also nice to see I'm not alone in feeling the momentary A/V glitch on same-tuner overlaps, is minor (IMHO). That's only one side of a coin, though, as has been repeatedly stated by others.

    I've been doing my best to just accept the "other side of that coin" being a big enough issue that it had merit for TiVo to pull the function, yet again, even though I don't pad anything enough to be affected by the "scheduling" issue with padding enough to overlap a whole guide entry, or multiple ones, which (apparently) can result in missed/skipped recordings.

    I'm not downplaying that side of it. If I was affected by it, I'm sure I'd feel as strongly about it as those who are. It's yet another "how you use your TiVo", than the easier to discuss "something that equally impacts everybody" issue.
     
  15. Apr 7, 2014 #175 of 442
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    I have requested my TSNs be removed from the priority queue, and instead be placed at the end of the general public rollout, while requesting log monitoring continue.

    I've reduced the impact of a larger (for me) HDMI/video scaling-related issue, by changing my fixed output to 1080i, instead of 1080p.

    That's stopped my TVs/TiVos from blanking the picture/audio at random intervals and making a loud double pop, as well as the bursts of audio and video "static" which would sometimes happen instead. What I now see are random occurrences of extremely mild macroblocking of maybe 3-5 "blocks". My best guess is these same occurrences were tripping up the 720p/1080i upscaling to 1080p, when using the TiVo to do it. That's backed up with how any other device placed on the very same cable/input to the TVs can do full 1080p/60 and 1080p/24, without a single hiccup.

    Based on the way I use my TiVos, have things set up, and what I do and don't do with them, I feel like I'd rather skip this "Spring Update", and just wait for the "Summer Update". It just seems like any update that has caused video-out issues, especially HDMI-specific, as reported by others, would be no-steps-forward, and three-steps-back, for me. I can live with the current state of things, and the same-tuner overlap handling. I understand there are those that can't, and respect that.
     
  16. Apr 7, 2014 #176 of 442
    Bierboy

    Bierboy Seasoned gas passer

    12,346
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    Jun 12, 2004
    Quad Sillies
    As I posted above, TiVo should AT LEAST offer KUID as ONE recording option, just NOT the default. Let the user choose...
     
  17. Apr 7, 2014 #177 of 442
    rainwater

    rainwater Active Member

    7,057
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    Sep 21, 2004
    Maybe if it only applies to single recordings. Season Pass recordings shouldn't even be allowed to use KUID (unless they add a secret backdoor for power users) because it is just a support nightmare when the TiVo does not record a users programs because they aren't clear how that option works.
     
  18. Apr 7, 2014 #178 of 442
    leiff

    leiff Member

    513
    1
    Aug 24, 2005
    concurrent comcast on-demand viewing from host TiVo box and Minni is a very welcome addition. Also I was getting random SRM -8 error messages frequently before update accessing Comcast on demand. No more now. update probably fixed this or it may have been a ethernet switch i swapped out at the same time i got update.
     
  19. Apr 7, 2014 #179 of 442
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
    0
    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    A lot of good this did me... :(

    All three just got the update, lost the real-time connection, bare-bones functionality, can't reboot since they are recording, can't watch because the screen keeps blacking out (sound too), and the only way I can get anything to show is by switching to another HDMI port and back, only to go black again. The HDUI Thumbs-Down, Thumbs-Up, Play, Play sequence won't even get them back up without jumping between HDMI inputs...

    KMTTG just locks-up, but my network is working fine for all non-TiVo devices.

    I don't have high hopes for what I'll see when they can reboot and update. Hopefully I'll at least be able to do something after they can install the update. Belly-Up bricked on all three, and can't even verify they actually are recording as the panel lights indicate.

    I guess I have live by the comment I made about how TiVo users should know that software updates are "Beta Testing & Field Trials Part 2" and that's what we ought to know by now if we've been TiVo users for a significant amount of time.

    Force-feed all three an update at the exact same time, during prime-time, throwing all into C133 lockdown mode... WTH TiVo? :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:
     
  20. Apr 7, 2014 #180 of 442
    andyf

    andyf Active Member

    1,177
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    Feb 23, 2000
    Houston,...
    http://status.tivo.com is showing a partial outage on core services. They're calling a minor outage ... seems pretty major to me.
     

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