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2-Tuner Support Not on the Roadmap

Discussion in 'TiVo Mini' started by sbiller, Mar 12, 2013.

  1. Mar 14, 2013 #81 of 171
    sbiller

    sbiller Active Member

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    Good question. I haven't seen Suddenlink answer that question. The only data point I have for this use-case is RCN. They support retail Streams for Premiere-Q customers only. I expect Suddenlink will support as well. It saves them CPE and CapEx with very little support if the customers home already has MoCA.
     
  2. Mar 14, 2013 #82 of 171
    Austin Bike

    Austin Bike Member

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    While I always wanted mini with a 2-tuner, I can understand why they don't want to support it.

    With a 2 tuner I find that live TV often interrupts recording because there are already 2 things being recorded and I have to choose which to kill to watch something live. People have grown accustomed to having 2 tuners and a mini would potentially interrupt that. And if you have a mini running but it can't get a live signal because the other 2 tuners are in use, you end up with the opinion that "this things sucks, I can never do what I want to".

    They are already on the hook for higher pricing, no android support, needing 2 different devices for tablet and tv use and a bunch of other things. If I was running their product management I would think that it is easier to say "no 2 tuner support" than take the wrath of angry customers and bad reviews. They probably see the 4 tuner growth going up heavily and the 2 tuner growth dropping, so the demand signal probably says that supporting 4 tuner is going to make it easier.

    Ultimately it comes down to pissing off the 2 tuner people one way or another. You either offer support and get all of the complaints and bad reviews or you don't offer and you get some blowback from people who wanted the device. Obviously, if this is the case they probably look at a.) the install base/growth of 2 tuner vs. 4 tuner and b.) the propensity to want to buy the mini (2 tuner vs. 4 tuner).

    Obviously the bulk of the "2 tuner and want mini" people are going to be in this forum. So while it may seem like a huge issue, in reality, relative to their total market opportunity, this could be a much smaller number that just gets magnified here.

    As a marketing person, I know these decisions and tradeoffs happen all the times. It always comes down to:

    1. What is technically possible?
    2. What has the least number of technical/support issues?
    3. Where can I maximize revenue?

    You look at 1 first because if it isn't possible the discussion is done. 2 is second because support is a cost with no (real) benefit. So anything that pushes support costs up introduces uncertainty and risk, that is bad. Finally you look at the revenue input.

    Tivo has lots of data available and makes the decision that works best for their business. That may not be the decision that the users want (I have a 2 tuner premiere and would love a mini). This is just like the "no andriod on stream" thread. Tivo is ovbiously looking at the market and doing what works best based on the circumstances, they aren't idiots, they just have access to a lot more information than we do about the real opportunity. When people say they are making a big mistake, they are saying that without all of the information.
     
  3. Mar 14, 2013 #83 of 171
    CoxInPHX

    CoxInPHX COX Communications

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    Assumption that it is not a technical limitation.

    How about an option to call into TiVo support, pass a technical IQ test and then they allow you to add a Mini to an account with only regular 2-Tuner Premieres.

    You fail the IQ test, no you cannot add the Mini.
     
  4. Mar 14, 2013 #84 of 171
    DaveDFW

    DaveDFW Member

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    I agreed with your post up until the last paragraph. I have seen no evidence that Tivo makes particularly wise business decisions. In fact, they have been on the precipice of collapse for a decade as a result of their previous business decisions.

    Successful ligitagion outcomes are currently keeping them afloat.
     
  5. Mar 14, 2013 #85 of 171
    freerule

    freerule New Member

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    Jun 23, 2012
    So, a TiVo Mini can be used to recive OTA streaming from a TiVo Premiere already on the account, but in order to do so the account holder would have to spend a minimum of $900, or $349 upfront plus $21 monthly.

    $250 (P4)
    $400 (Lifetime w/MSD)
    $99 (Mini)
    $150 (Mini Lifetime)
    _____
    $900 (total; or $349 upfront + $21 monthly w/1yr. commitment)
     
  6. Mar 14, 2013 #86 of 171
    aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    But would TiVo support people even pass that test? No doubt that some would not based on some of my past experience.
     
  7. Mar 14, 2013 #87 of 171
    slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

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    Yep, pretty much what a 3-tuner Moxi + Mate bundle cost before discontinued I think, or was it $799?
     
  8. Mar 14, 2013 #88 of 171
    magnus

    magnus Tivo User

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    A P4 can't be used for OTA though. So, it wouldn't make sense to buy one, if you're looking for OTA support.
     
  9. Mar 14, 2013 #89 of 171
    DaveDFW

    DaveDFW Member

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    But the P4 is needed to support a Mini infrastructure. To stream OTA material to a Mini, you'll need both an OTA-capable DVR (two-tuner Premiere), and a host DVR to enable functionality of the Mini (four-tuner Premiere).
     
  10. Mar 14, 2013 #90 of 171
    magnus

    magnus Tivo User

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    Sorry but that is just asinine.
     
  11. Mar 14, 2013 #91 of 171
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    Even with that setup you wouldn't be able to watch live OTA. You can only watch live TV from the 4 tuner host, which you pointed out doesn't do OTA.

    I think OTA users are going to have to wait for the next gen hardware.
     
  12. Mar 14, 2013 #92 of 171
    dhoward

    dhoward Member

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    Tivo has said for a long time that when dynamic tuning was complete the Mini would support 2 tuners. Now that the Mini is out they have now said no way ever for 2 tuner. They have had a lot of time to get the dynamic tuner feature working and like most of there hardware releases they come out only 1/2 ready. I would not be surprised if by the time this feature is released they will then say it only will work with the next gen Tivo and 4 tune Premiers will not be able to use it. On the surface why can't this feature be implemented the same way existing Tivos put a message on the screen asking if it is ok to use the tuner you are watching to a record a show. If you do not answer the question it takes the tuner. If you say no it does not record. Why is that so hard for the Mini. If you do not answer the prompt it releases the tuner. How much work to implement that can it be?
     
  13. Mar 14, 2013 #93 of 171
    DaveDFW

    DaveDFW Member

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    I agree--I was just explaining why the previous poster included the cost of a P4 in the total cost of streaming material recorded from an OTA source to an Mini.
     
  14. Mar 14, 2013 #94 of 171
    DaveDFW

    DaveDFW Member

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    This sounds correct, a Mini user would only be able to stream already-recorded OTA material from a two-tuner Premiere, not stream a live OTA channel.
     
  15. Mar 14, 2013 #95 of 171
    magnus

    magnus Tivo User

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    Oh ok. I wondered why they were doing that. Makes sense now.
     
  16. Mar 14, 2013 #96 of 171
    moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    Actually OTA brings up another point. Since the 2 tuner Premieres use different tuners than the 4 tuner Premieres, perhaps the mechanism for the Mini to steal a tuner would have to be completely different from what is currently implemented. So even with dynamic tuning capability it may have been a lot more work to get things working with 2 tuner units, so TiVo decided not to do it. Makes you wonder if Mini will ever work with OTA capable TiVos as hosts. Still doesn't explain why not just at least allow Mini to use 2 tuner hosts without possibility of stealing a tuner though...
     
  17. Mar 14, 2013 #97 of 171
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    We've actually discussed that possibility before. And it seems like it might be a viable technological hurdle. However if they plan on releasing a new unit which supports OTA then they're going to have to tackle that problem eventually anyway. Unless they've found a supplier for the new unit which can consolidate OTA and cable into one physical tuner or they release an OTA only box. Neither of which is very likely.
     
  18. Mar 14, 2013 #98 of 171
    jrtroo

    jrtroo User

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    While I don't have a 4 tuner model either, this would work for me 100% of the time. I would have the mini so I would not have to watch live TV anywhere. Mind boggling how many want to use this for live TV.

    My disappointment is a lack of Netflix, which we use often, so I'll keep my own setup until the new hardware is out.
     
  19. Mar 14, 2013 #99 of 171
    magnus

    magnus Tivo User

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    On Facebook, Tivo seems to suggest that it's not a technology issue but it was decided that 2 tuner support would not be allowed because it would diminish the DVR experience on the host box.
     
  20. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    Make sense. Especially if they have a 3+ tuner unit that supports OTA waiting in the wings. Right now the only non-cost related reason not to upgrade to a 4 tuner box is if you still want OTA. (or analog) Sounds like whatever box they have coming down the pipe will at least support OTA. (analog users are still SOL)
     

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