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Wakeup issues with HDMI

23K views 83 replies 32 participants last post by  tim1724 
#1 ·
I've noticed an odd problem with my Basic's HDMI handshaking. If my television is off when I wake the Roamio from standby, when I turn on the television the Roamio will not display video. The television says "no signal". If I turn on the television first video is displayed normally. This problem does not occur with my HD.
 
#52 ·
I experienced this HDMI issue yesterday. I tried disconnecting/reattaching the HDMI cable, turning TV off/on. Only thing that fixed it was putting the TiVo back in standby and bringing it out of standby again. (Note: The area around the green power LED seems to be a capacitive switch which acts as a standby button. I discovered this by accident and was happy when it fixed the problem!)

oh, and it's a Samsung LN46A750.
Tim1724, I've done all you've mentioned and more. I created a separate thread about this and the WiFi connectivity issues (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=510372 ) before I realized this thread existed. Thanks for letting me know about the capacitive switch near the green power LED.

But, as I've stated before, in my dealings with TiVo Executive Relations, they insist that no one is having these problems except for me, and this is now clearly NOT the case. The next time I speak with them, I will certainly bring this entire thread to their attention.
 
#53 ·
Tim1724, I've done all you've mentioned and more. I created a separate thread about this and the WiFi connectivity issues (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=510372 ) before I realized this thread existed. Thanks for letting me know about the capacitive switch near the green power LED.

But, as I've stated before, in my dealings with TiVo Executive Relations, they insist that no one is having these problems except for me, and this is now clearly NOT the case. The next time I speak with them, I will certainly bring this entire thread to their attention.
Well, certainly some people at TiVo are aware of the problem. Note the posts by Margret Schmidt, TiVo Vice President of Design & Engineering.
 
#54 ·
Similar problem here as well only much worse. I have my TiVo connected to my Denon receiver which is then connected to my Samsung LCD. EVERYTIME I finish watching a Netflix movie or a downloaded Amazon Prime show it goes to a blank screen. I have to switch inputs on the Denon to get it working again. I have to say if I wanted this many issues I should have just stayed with my cable box. Good grief do they not test their own products? I have a very common setup.
 
#56 ·
Similar problem here as well only much worse. I have my TiVo connected to my Denon receiver which is then connected to my Samsung LCD. EVERYTIME I finish watching a Netflix movie or a downloaded Amazon Prime show it goes to a blank screen. I have to switch inputs on the Denon to get it working again. I have to say if I wanted this many issues I should have just stayed with my cable box. Good grief do they not test their own products? I have a very common setup.
I can understand your frustration, but can you imagine how many av receiver and tv combos are out there?
 
#57 ·
What it really boils down to is the fact that HDMI is a complex interface and standard. Gone is the simplicity of Component (RGB or Y, Pb, Pr) cables that basically sent video through them as a "straight through" or "pass through" mode. HDMI has video, audio, sync, copyright protection (HDCP), and in new devices audio return channel and ethernet. That's a lot for devices to handle and a lot of times if a device can't handle all the "handshakes" required, it will drop the signal, most often the video is the one to suffer.

I know in my own system, I used to run the HDMI cable from the Roamio Plus into my Insignia AV Amplifier and then out to the HDTV. And then another HDMI from my Blu-Ray into the amp and then to the HDTV. There was too much in the chain. So, I simplified things by running the HDMI directly from source (Roamio and Blu-Ray) to the HDMI 1 and HDMI 2 inputs of my HDTV. This solved many problems, especially with Blu-Ray, no more dropouts, black screens from the Blu-Ray. The Roamio Plus, on the other hand, still constantly has black screen when I resume from standby. So the issue with the Roamio Plus is in the way it handles the HDMI signal when it goes into standby and when it comes out. Interestingly, my Premier XL4 exhibits none of these problems and it's always being put into Standby and taken out.

The only good thing about this "wake up from HDMI" problem is that I realized that I can "press" (actually touch) the green LED circle and the Roamio Plus will go right into standby, and then when I touch the area again, it comes out and 9 out of 10 times the video comes back. (Before finding out about this "capacitive switch" I had to go from memory with the remote, tivo button... down arrow 5 times, select, down arrow 5 times, select ... to put it into standby..... way too hard).

So.. here's hoping TiVo comes up with a solution.
 
#58 ·
The "HDMI black screen when resuming from standby" issue that I had has been "resolved." I put the word "resolved" in quotes because the solution that I found may not be a fix per-se, but rather the function works properly now and I'm not entirely sure how the fix came about, although I have theories.

A quick background. Back in August I decided it was time to upgrade my Premier XL4 to a new Roamio Plus. The Premier XL4 was connected via HDMI to my Sharp 70inch HDTV (Model: LC-70LE600U) and we used to put the XL4 into Standby all the time and take it out of standby without a single problem. So, when the Roamio arrived, I moved the Premier XL4 into our "playroom" where my teenagers watch TV and connected the XL4 to my Sharp 46in HDTV (Model: LC-46SB54U). The XL4 worked fine, just like it always did, and the teens put it into and out of standby all the time. The Roamio, however was another story all together…..

From the moment the Roamio Plus was connected and put into Standby, when coming out of Standby (by pressing the TiVo button , or live TV button, etc) the screen would stay black, but the sound would work. After long trial and error, I found out that if I put the Roamio Plus back into Standby and then took it out again, the video would return. Eventually, I realized that the green circle (power indicator light on front panel left side) was actually a "capacitive switch" (meaning that you could touch it and it would perform a function). I learned that this was "quick standby" and it would put the Roamio Plus into (or out of ) standby. This helped when I had the black screen by quickly putting it back in to standby and then taking it out, thereby allowing the video to show again. BUT.. this wasn't a solution.

So, I wrote postings on TiVo's official users forum, as well as, TiVoCommunity.com forum. And found that many others had this same standby problem. I even contacted TiVo customer support more than five times, ultimately writing a letter and then ultimately dealing for over 5 weeks with Executive Relations specialist. BUT… in ALL that time the Black Screen from Standby issue STILL was occurring and being quite annoying….

Until….…. I accidentally stumbled upon the answer to my problem, and perhaps others.

HERE'S the solution that worked for me… all this time from when I used a Premier XL4, through the Roamio Plus, I use a Logitech Harmony 650 remote control because my TiVo and Sharp TV are connected to my AV system for nice surround sound.
[ The TiVo Roamio Plus is connected via HDMI cable (a Monster brand HDMI) to the HDMI 1 input on the back of the Sharp HDTV. (I do not send HDMI into the amp and then out, my HDMI goes directly into the Sharp). Optical audio cable is connected from TiVo Roamio Plus into the Optical 1 input on the Insignia 7.1 channel amplifier. (Blu-Ray player goes HDMI into Sharp as HDMI2,and its optical goes into Optical2 on the amp). ]

So, I would take the Logitech and power up the system, then take the TiVo remote and press TiVo or LiveTV to take the TiVo Roamio out of Standby. The Logitech was programmed to ignore "power toggle" on the TiVo since we all know that the TiVo has no such function since it's "always on". This is the way I used my system for three years with the XL4 and then the Roamio Plus and it always worked….

Until, I added a third item (laptop connected to HDMI3) to my system , which in and of itself did NOT fix the TiVO problem, but rather LED to the solution.

You see, when I went into the programming of the Logitech I accidentally deleted my Activities. An "Activity" on a Logitech Harmony 650 is: "Watch TV" or "Watch DVD", etc. In this list you tell the Logitech to: "power on amp, power on TV, set TV to HDMI 1, set amp to 'Cbl/Sat', Volume is controlled through amp, etc". So, when "watch tv" is selected, all inputs go to make the TiVo play through the Sharp HDTV and sound through proper input on amp, etc. Then when you press "watch DVD" the Logitech sends signals to change inputs on HDTV to HDMI 2, amp to "DVD" ,etc.

SO… BEFORE recreating the Activities in the Logitech, I connected to their software and selected "Search for Firmware update". It found one and updated the Logitech remote.
THEN.. I set up activities. BUT, THIS TIME… when I selected "Watch TV" as the first activity in the Logitech remote control software program , It gave me choices: "Watch TV (cable/satellite set top box)", "Watch TV (Roku box)", "Watch TV (TiVo)", "Watch TV (Ceton)" (Ceton is a PC card that plugs into your computer and has a CableCARD slot, so you can use the computer to watch / record TV). And finally "Watch TV (other)"

So… I selected "Watch TV (TiVo)". Then set up all the rest of the activities for my Blu-Ray and laptop.

When I used the Logitech to turn OFF my system, THIS time it also put the TiVo directly into Standby with one command. I never saw this before and it never did that before; we used to have to put the TiVo into standby FIRST, then power down system with Logitech remote.
But apparently, NOW the Logitech Harmony 650 has a one-step command to put the TiVo directly into standby…. AND take it out of Standby when turning things back on.

"FIXED!!!"….I have NOT had a "black screen from Standby" issue in over two weeks now!!! I can only surmise that either the Logitech remote is turning things on in a specific order that allows a proper HDMI handshake or that it "reselects HDMI 1" as a choice after things go on, or something else that I have not determined. I have NOT been able to isolate the fix specifically. I tried putting the TiVo in and out of Standby many, many times, and each and every time it worked, whereas in the past, it would have "black screened" after the fifth time, and ALWAYS after a long period of time (overnight).

SUMMARY… not sure if a combination of TiVo software / firmware update from TiVo happened at the same time my Logitech operations changed or whether it's simply the commands issued from the Logitech in a certain order that cause the problem to no longer exist. I know that I didn't do anything to the Sharp HDTV.

I realize this long posting won't help others fix the problems, and I am by no means advocating for people to go out and spend their hard earned money on a Logitech remote. I just wanted to provide my "two cents" for anyone else that may have the problem. And I'm glad that I don't have that crazy "black screen from Standby" problem any longer.
 
#59 ·
I'm glad it's fixed for you. I also don't have the problem anymore, but I attributed it to the recent update.

That said, I don't put my unit into standby that often. I asked some time back what the purpose of it is, but I still don't know. Other than not putting out a video signal, what difference is there? I measured power usage in and out of standby and found the difference to be trivial, so I usually don't bother.
 
#60 ·
I'm glad it's fixed for you. I also don't have the problem anymore, but I attributed it to the recent update.

That said, I don't put my unit into standby that often. I asked some time back what the purpose of it is, but I still don't know. Other than not putting out a video signal, what difference is there? I measured power usage in and out of standby and found the difference to be trivial, so I usually don't bother.
Well there are a few reasons for putting the unit in Standby. I will explain. a couple are purely personal reasons. But the other is for recording issues.
1-- the personal reason-- My wife and kids sometimes don't allow the Logitech to complete its autoshutdown sequence leaving the amp on so if the TiVo is on, the sound comes through the speakers, whereas in Standby no sound.
2 -- another personal reason-- guests to my house (and my wife to some degree) would see the lights on the front display and say "oh, you left that on, shouldn't you turn it off if you're not watching it?" And me getting tired of explaining that it's ok to leave the TiVo on, would just put it in standby and no LEDs. (side note: Yes, I realize there's a software setting in the settings menu that can turn off the LEDs all together, but I LIKE them ON because when the unit is on, I can see if recordings start when they are supposed to).
FINALLY..

**3** --- the IMPORTANT REASON -- no interrupted recordings. Here on Long Island, New York I subscribe to Cablevision's television service (called OptimumTV). And during the overnight hours is when the Emergency Alert System is tested. If the TiVO is NOT in standby and just left on, and I'm recording a program, I will record the EAS alert which is very annoying when watching the program back. BUT..... if the TiVo is in Standby, the EAS does NOT interrupt the program recording. I don't know why this is, but it is.

But now that either a) TiVo sent an upgrade or b) the logitech sequence or c) all the above have happened and I no longer have the Standby issue... it's a moot point.
 
#62 ·
Similar problem here as well only much worse. I have my TiVo connected to my Denon receiver which is then connected to my Samsung LCD. EVERYTIME I finish watching a Netflix movie or a downloaded Amazon Prime show it goes to a blank screen. I have to switch inputs on the Denon to get it working again. I have to say if I wanted this many issues I should have just stayed with my cable box. Good grief do they not test their own products? I have a very common setup.
rcase13 I have the same setup as you: 2012 Samsung 7 series, Denon AVR-E400, Roamio Basic. And I have the same problem. My Tivo is connected to the Blu-ray input on my receiver (because I am short an HDMI cable right now because Tivo cheaped out and did not include it). When I turn my TV and receiver on (almost simultaneously), I can see and hear the Tivo just fine because my setup completes the HDMI handshake pretty quickly. But after a couple seconds, my Denon switches input to "TV Audio", which is my receiver's Audio Return Channel going to/from the TV. And of course I lose audio and video from the TV at that point.

The Tivo is sending an HDMI/CEC command to change the input to "TV Audio". I think Tivo probably did this in a futile attempt to reduce the number of support calls that they get from people who barely know how to change channels and are confused when their TV is on the wrong input.

This reminds me of a Dilbert cartoon I read recently. I forget what the premise was, but someone asked Dilbert if he could integrate something. And he said yes, but what an engineer can do is rarely what he SHOULD do... :D

The reason that the HDMI powered switch is working for some people is that it is probably ignoring or incompatible with the HDMI/CEC command.

The workaround for now is to turn HDMI/CEC off on your receiver or TV, or whatever device is switching inputs on you. This worked for me. Also if you can guess which input the Tivo is trying to switch to, and then connect the HDMI cable to it, that could also solve your problem. But, this is of course an unacceptable solution when it is the Tivo that is doing something it absolutely should not be.

Note that HDMI/CEC is called many different things (sometimes it is generic, sometimes it is a marketing term): HDMI Control, AnyNet, etc.
 
#64 ·
#67 ·
I believe this problem will be resolved with today's update for Roamio:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=511493
Today I had no audio after turning the TV back on. Not sure if was HDMI-CEC related but this is the first time I've had this issue. Turning the TV off and back on didn't help. However, when I pressed 'Live' to flip through tuners, sound came back on the channel. The Tivo was not coming out of stand-by and has latest software.
 
#73 ·
I've experienced HDMI black-screen/no sound issues very frequently. I've always found some non extreme measure way to get the HDMI handshake to work, but it is a PITA, as I've found it can happen in many scenarios, with many different HDMI receiving devices (TVs, HDMI switches, and such), and I've not found a universal way to easily do so (or I'd be sharing it right now).

Currently running most-current software release (20.3.8...).
 
#74 ·
I've had the Roamio Plus for about a week and had no issue until today. I have been getting "HDMI connection Not Permitted"...flipping off/on. I activated a new Mini yesterday and it appears to be working fine yet when going to the plus it freaks out w/ HDMI issue. None of my components/cables have changed.

As I type now, the HDMI has started working again.
 
#75 ·
I get this on occasion as well.

My Tivo is never in standby.

I just go to turn on the tv and either get a black screen or sometimes a green flash/static screen will appear.

Sometimes turning the tv off and back on will correct it, but unplugging and plugging the HDMI cable back in always fixes the issue.

I also get no sound until the image appears. Recordings are not affected so it appears to not be a tuning issue, but perhaps a HDMI handshaking issue.

Sony Bravia TV
Tivo Roamio Pro connected via HDMI
Optical Audio out of tv to receiver.
 
#76 ·
I get this on occasion as well.

My Tivo is never in standby.

I just go to turn on the tv and either get a black screen or sometimes a green flash/static screen will appear.

Sometimes turning the tv off and back on will correct it, but unplugging and plugging the HDMI cable back in always fixes the issue.

I also get no sound until the image appears. Recordings are not affected so it appears to not be a tuning issue, but perhaps a HDMI handshaking issue.

Sony Bravia TV
Tivo Roamio Pro connected via HDMI
Optical Audio out of tv to receiver.
I have exactly the same issues as you, Wildcardd. I also have a Sony Bravia XBR connected to a Roamio Plus via HDMI. It also happens sporadically when I use alternate HDMI inputs to watch a movie via Apple TV or blu-ray for a couple of hours. Sometime when I return to HDMI 1, the Roamio works and sometimes it doesn't. Seems to be purely an HDMI handshake problem, but one not experienced in any of my 4 HDMI inputs except the Roamio.
 
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