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TiVo prepping nex generation DVRs

220K views 1K replies 118 participants last post by  HarperVision 
#1 ·
#352 ·
Supporting an m-card running in single stream mode is not the same as supporting it in multi-stream mode.
Isn't that what I said? Tell me how what I posted would speak otherwise. Back off. It was a question, to make sure I knew what I thought I did.

I don't recall saying anything at all that would be leading anybody to possibly believe that running an M-Card in S-Card mode was the same.

My curiosity, was simply if there may be some TiVo, which I was unaware of, with some problem with running an M-card, at all... So very simple.
 
#353 ·
The OLED TiVo was designed to handle a multi stream card prior to a card being avaiable. Unfortunately, once the m-card finally came on the market it wasn't compatible with the TiVo in multi stream mode.

Hardware issue...
 
#354 ·
Isn't that what I said? Tell me how what I posted would speak otherwise. Back off. It was a question, to make sure I knew what I thought I did.

I don't recall saying anything at all that would be leading anybody to possibly believe that running an M-Card in S-Card mode was the same.

My curiosity, was simply if there may be some TiVo, which I was unaware of, with some problem with running an M-card, at all... So very simple.
I would say that a better phrasing is that newer M cards are compatible with S-CARD slots. I remember in the beginning some of the M cards did not work and we had to make sure they were the latest and greatest.
 
#355 ·
The OLED TiVo was designed to handle a multi stream card prior to a card being avaiable. Unfortunately, once the m-card finally came on the market it wasn't compatible with the TiVo in multi stream mode.

Hardware issue...
Partially correct. A TiVo spokesman (TivoPony) once said that it was technically possible to add full M-card support to the OLED S3, but that doing so would be very difficult and could cause problems so they didn't bother trying. I don't know how much of that was truth and how much was BS, but that was what was said. If it was a hardware only issue, I doubt it could be potentially fixed in software.
 
#356 ·
Isn't that what I said? Tell me how what I posted would speak otherwise. Back off. It was a question, to make sure I knew what I thought I did.

I don't recall saying anything at all that would be leading anybody to possibly believe that running an M-Card in S-Card mode was the same.

My curiosity, was simply if there may be some TiVo, which I was unaware of, with some problem with running an M-card, at all... So very simple.
And I was simply clarifying the issue for you and informing you that it is irrelevant whether or not an m-card will work in single stream mode. What was being complained about and has been complained about for years is that the original S3 continued to require 2 cards even after the m-cards became available. There are some posts that indicate TiVo had at least implied that multi-stream support would be added.

I don't know as my first S3 was a THD purchased in 2008 and has never had anything but a single m-card.
 
#357 ·
And I was simply clarifying the issue for you and informing you that it is irrelevant whether or not an m-card will work in single stream mode. What was being complained about and has been complained about for years is that the original S3 continued to require 2 cards even after the m-cards became available. There are some posts that indicate TiVo had at least implied that multi-stream support would be added.

I don't know as my first S3 was a THD purchased in 2008 and has never had anything but a single m-card.
OK, that's better. I, too, never have owned a S3 OLED. I have four TiVo HDs. So, I'm familiar with the two slots. I also, recall reading on here about how the S3 OLED was *supposed to* work the same way, but didn't.

In the scenario, where you have to rent two M-cards, each running in S-Card mode, I can see why people would be angry. As much as I feel TiVo is at the opposite end of "being all it can be", I would think that if it was anything other than hardware, it would have been fixed, long ago. Even hardware issues sometimes have software "workarounds", like the TiVo HD grey/black screen tuner issue. It took until well beyond the end of production (end-of-life point), for TiVo to issue that patch, just prior to 11.0K. Then enter the Premieres, the Premiere 4s, and all the issues they have, or have had, and how much time it takes for them to make them less frustrating to own... I fully expect, nothing less, than to be majorly underwhelmed by whatever comes next. The S3 will always need two cards to have two tuners. The HD will always have some issues, that remain unresolved. Sometimes I picture the TiVo R&D department as a heaping pile of smoking TiVo units, and the first one that doesn't explode, or catch on fire, gets put into production, released with "just barely" software, and by the time it reaches end-of-life, it may be a cool product to own, that truly provides entertainment and enjoyment, making cableco DVRs unthinkable to use. I think what truly drives many to TiVo, is the ability to expand capacity, and tinker.

If I could make it happen, I'd solidify the TiVo user base against buying any newer product, until TiVo fixes/finishes what they already sold. Somebody made a good point about how, unless lifetime service is involved, we still pay TiVo every month to use our existing equipment, no matter how old it is. Unfortunately, it seems most of the TiVo user base will buy ANYTHING TiVo releases. It's a phenomenon, which hurts those of us that can't afford the upgrading. The way I see it, the original Premiere, is currently the product it SHOULD HAVE BEEN, the day it was released to retail. It still has a lot of issues to address, and instead of focusing on that, TiVo is shifting effort to release something "new". Unfortunately, people will buy it. :(
 
#358 ·
Why wouldn't I buy it? I'll sell my S4 boxes to cover the cost of the new hardware. And have zero to very little out of pocket cost to me. I would be crazy not to upgrade.

And in the process I'll eventually be down to one cable card. I had eight cable cards(ten if you count when I had Comcast and FiOS) at one time when I had my OLED S3 boxes and TiVoHD boxes.
When I'm finally down to one cable card that will be only $4 a month in cable card fees. At one point I was paying $24 a month for cable cards.
 
#359 ·
Why wouldn't I buy it? I'll sell my S4 boxes to cover the cost of the new hardware. And have zero to very little out of pocket cost to me. I would be crazy not to upgrade.

And in the process I'll eventually be down to one cable card. I had eight cable cards(ten if you count when I had Comcast and FiOS) at one time when I had my OLED S3 boxes and TiVoHD boxes.
When I'm finally down to one cable card that will be only $4 a month in cable card fees. At one point I was paying $24 a month for cable cards.
If I understand your sig correctly, you currently have 10 tuners available. How is one box going to replace that?
 
#360 ·
I will absolutely upgrade as well.

As I have said, I would go as for as saying that I am VERY happy with all the TiVo's I have owned. Yes, I have some annoyances in some models - but nothing that would make me rise up and storm the TiVo campus.

I have three TiVo's all with lifetime. I should be able to get $300 each for my OLED and HD models. I will keep the Premier and purchase one Six tuner S5 and one Mini for the bedroom.

That will refresh my hardware for what; a $200 - $300 investment?

You are dang right I am going to upgrade!

Holding off and allowing your boxes to continue to age and loose value just out of some sense of spite is a great strategy, but I will not be following you off that cliff. I might also add, this is another expample of the value of lifetime service.
 
#361 ·
If I understand your sig correctly, you currently have 10 tuners available. How is one box going to replace that?
He may not necessarily be trying to replace all ten tuners, just a better allocation of the tuners he has.

That is the value proposistion of the Hub and Spoke vs a Distributed design.
 
#362 ·
If I understand your sig correctly, you currently have 10 tuners available. How is one box going to replace that?
My two Elites will be replaced by one, six tuner, S5 box. I'll still keep my OTA only Premiere. I'll have less tuners but as long as Dymanic Tuner allocation is implemented for my two Minis, I should have the bare minimum of tuners I'll need for my recordings.
 
#364 ·
My two Elites will be replaced by one, six tuner, S5 box. I'll still keep my OTA only Premiere. I'll have less tuners but as long as Dymanic Tuner allocation is implemented for my two Minis, I should have the bare minimum of tuners I'll need for my recordings.
Ah. If I had known that the Premiere was OTA only and that you were keeping it, it would have made sense.
 
#365 ·
Then I don't understand why he has 3 TiVos w/10 tuners if he only needs 6 tuners.
In my case it makes a lot of sense.

I have a TiVo in my Family room, a TiVo in my Bedroom and a TiVo in my Media room that also feeds a TV in the game room. If I couldn't split the Media room TiVo I would need to add another box for that TV I would have a total of 8 Tuners.

With a 6 Tuner TiVo in the Family room and 3 Mini's I could easily reduce the number of tuners. I do not use all the tuners, but I do need to provide a signal to all these nodes.

And frankly, with 6 cooperative tuners I will get much more value out of the tuners that I do own.
 
#366 ·
My two Elites will be replaced by one, six tuner, S5 box. I'll still keep my OTA only Premiere. I'll have less tuners but as long as Dymanic Tuner allocation is implemented for my two Minis, I should have the bare minimum of tuners I'll need for my recordings.
Our better yet if they release a S5 4 tuner OTA unit you could buy that and replace the Premiere also. Back to 10 tuners and all new latest addition hardware.
 
#367 ·
...
If I could make it happen, I'd solidify the TiVo user base against buying any newer product, until TiVo fixes/finishes what they already sold. Somebody made a good point about how, unless lifetime service is involved, we still pay TiVo every month to use our existing equipment, no matter how old it is. Unfortunately, it seems most of the TiVo user base will buy ANYTHING TiVo releases. It's a phenomenon, which hurts those of us that can't afford the upgrading. The way I see it, the original Premiere, is currently the product it SHOULD HAVE BEEN, the day it was released to retail. It still has a lot of issues to address, and instead of focusing on that, TiVo is shifting effort to release something "new". Unfortunately, people will buy it. :(
I am all for TiVo supporting software updates for existing units but not moving forward with updated hardware would assure TiVo's failure. The Premiere's hardware is out dated and not able to perform the tasks and at the level that people want. TiVo needs to get an updated 6 tuner whole home system out there yesterday and an updated entry level 4 tuner combined OTA/Cable unit wouldn't hurt.
 
#368 ·
In my case it makes a lot of sense.

I have a TiVo in my Family room, a TiVo in my Bedroom and a TiVo in my Media room that also feeds a TV in the game room. If I couldn't split the Media room TiVo I would need to add another box for that TV I would have a total of 8 Tuners.

With a 6 Tuner TiVo in the Family room and 3 Mini's I could easily reduce the number of tuners. I do not use all the tuners, but I do need to provide a signal to all these nodes.

And frankly, with 6 cooperative tuners I will get much more value out of the tuners that I do own.
Your case is different but while going to 6 cooperative tuners simplifies your "job" as it were, I do not see how you are getting more value.

IMHO, it requires more than just dynamic tuner allocation in order for a mini to be a full replacement for a TiVo. You need to be able to start a recording on the active tuner and save the live buffer.

Distributed processing has at least one advantage over hub and spoke - one less single point of full failure.
 
#369 ·
Distributed processing has at least one advantage over hub and spoke - one less single point of full failure.
That has always been my opinion plus with only 1 DVR you have limited storage without moving recordings to a computer (which isn't possible for everyone anymore). That said if they do release a 4 tuner OTA unit I will buy it and replace 2 of my current units.
 
#370 ·
Why wouldn't I buy it? I'll sell my S4 boxes to cover the cost of the new hardware. And have zero to very little out of pocket cost to me. I would be crazy not to upgrade.

And in the process I'll eventually be down to one cable card. I had eight cable cards(ten if you count when I had Comcast and FiOS) at one time when I had my OLED S3 boxes and TiVoHD boxes.
When I'm finally down to one cable card that will be only $4 a month in cable card fees. At one point I was paying $24 a month for cable cards.
No offense intended, but you are part of the class of TiVo users/buyers "anomaly" I described, where you blindly buy whatever TiVo releases next. You then *seem to* always state you don't have issues that others report. If anybody calls you out on that, you then say that you might be experiencing some issues, "but, they are only minor ones".

I'm never going to back down from reporting my experiences, and reporting when I'm not alone, just because you always are at the opposite end of the spectrum.

There's NOTHING WRONG with what you do, UNLESS you set out on a crusade to convince people that based on your experiences/interpretations of what grade an issue is needs to be based on your own, thus *basically* telling everybody else their experiences/interpretations are wrong, with a very high bias.

I do take the time to make sure that I "take it all in", and make sure that I'm not the only one who has experiences/interpretations of new TiVo products. I'm fully aware, that there will be defective units, which find their way to small numbers, and then it is only those unfortunate souls who suffer the worst.

I'm still so intrigued by your bias, that I still wonder if you aren't part of a covert stealth effort to do PR for TiVo, under the guise of being an everyday Joe. Again, no offense intended. It just looks like PR, smells like PR, walks like PR, and talks like PR. I think we all know what the rest of that borrowed analogy ends with.
 
#371 ·
Our better yet if they release a S5 4 tuner OTA unit you could buy that and replace the Premiere also. Back to 10 tuners and all new latest addition hardware.
I mainly use my OTA only Premiere to take recordings from FIOS over to my GFs house. But it can also be used as a backup if my FiOS connection goes down.
 
#372 ·
No offense intended, but you are part of the class of TiVo users/buyers "anomaly" I described, where you blindly buy whatever TiVo releases next. You then *seem to* always state you don't have issues that others report. If anybody calls you out on that, you then say that you might be experiencing some issues, "but, they are only minor ones".

I'm never going to back down from reporting my experiences, and reporting when I'm not alone, just because you always are at the opposite end of the spectrum.

There's NOTHING WRONG with what you do, UNLESS you set out on a crusade to convince people that based on your experiences/interpretations of what grade an issue is needs to be based on your own, thus *basically* telling everybody else their experiences/interpretations are wrong, with a very high bias.

I do take the time to make sure that I "take it all in", and make sure that I'm not the only one who has experiences/interpretations of new TiVo products. I'm fully aware, that there will be defective units, which find their way to small numbers, and then it is only those unfortunate souls who suffer the worst.

I'm still so intrigued by your bias, that I still wonder if you aren't part of a covert stealth effort to do PR for TiVo, under the guise of being an everyday Joe. Again, no offense intended. It just looks like PR, smells like PR, walks like PR, and talks like PR. I think we all know what the rest of that borrowed analogy ends with.
I have not been called out on anything. If I notice any issues I have always posted about them. I have never said any TiVo was problem free. Heck I've never owned any electronic device that was problem free. Every device out there has has some type of issue, they are just typically minor issues. Of course it really depends on how you use the device. What is considered minor to one person could be considered major to another.
 
#374 ·
I have not been called out on anything. If I notice any issues I have always posted about them. I have never said any TiVo was problem free. Heck I've never owned any electronic device that was problem free. Every device out there has has some type of issue, they are just typically minor issues. Of course it really depends on how you use the device. What is considered minor to one person could be considered major to another.
I definitely agree here. The way I use my TiVo I never seem to see the issues other complain about. I also do things completely different then most people. KMTTG is my go to tool for just about everything.
 
#375 ·
I have not been called out on anything. If I notice any issues I have always posted about them. I have never said any TiVo was problem free. Heck I've never owned any electronic device that was problem free. Every device out there has has some type of issue, they are just typically minor issues. Of course it really depends on how you use the device. What is considered minor to one person could be considered major to another.
I just want to say, I DO appreciate the civility in how you respond. I'm so tired of the trolls, politic-like ways that people tend to revert to, personal attacks, and how some act like a rabid dog, that has been cornered.

This isn't the first time I've implied my suspicions that you are doing covert PR for TiVo. What stands out, is that you chose not to confirm, or deny it.

I understand you may have your reasons. So, I'll try and back off on that matter.

So, moving along, do you experience the major issue that others have reported, with the 4-tuner units? Do you get un-tuned channels, with black screens? Are you somehow blessed without having to deal with that? That well-reported issue has been the very reason I have stacks of 2-tuner models, and pay for twice as many cable cards, every month.

After having to live with the, basically, same issue on HD units, which TiVo refused to acknowledge was even an issue, until they were certain they had a fix, which rolled out past the end-of-life point, I don't want to be thrust into the same situation, should I choose to move from 2-tuner, to 4-tuner models. Given the speed, more like lack thereof, of TiVo's fixes, from experience (which has been shared experience), that's the biggest step I'm willing to take, at this time. I'm unwilling to buy any newer product, on blind-faith alone. If others do buy the newest product, and report no such issue, and that holds for some time, then, and only then, will I consider a bigger leap of faith.

If your units are so very well made, and so very well working, maybe I should arrange to be the buyer for your units, and put faith in you, and that you are telling the whole truth.

Here's something I'd like for you to consider: If you were forced to ONLY run the software that came factory-installed on all your Tivos, would it change your perspective, at all? It's just a curiosity, and a well-thought-over, honest answer would be much appreciated.
 
#376 ·
So, moving along, do you experience the major issue that others have reported, with the 4-tuner units? Do you get un-tuned channels, with black screens? Are you somehow blessed without having to deal with that? That well-reported issue has been the very reason I have stacks of 2-tuner models, and pay for twice as many cable cards, every month.
I can only say for me, but I have never once seen this issue on my Elite.
 
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