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Series 3 Verizon FIOS HD compat?

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#1 ·
I was just about to order a Series 3 from TIVO, when I decided to ask that they gaurantee me that it will work with Verizon FIOS HD (I currently have cablevision, however FIOS is already installed in my building and I will be switching as soon as it is available). The sales rep transferred me to tech, who after 15 minutes told me that they had no information on whether it will work with FIOS HD.

So, does anyone REALLY know if a Series 3 will work with FIOS directly (No verizon box to video inputs, IR blasters, etc)?
 
#1,853 ·
Around here, no one will come out to snake wiring for just one line. It's basically "rewire a whole bunch of rooms for $500" or nothing.

My wife won't approve a major purchase, like a new TiVo HD, at this time. :)
I don't think FiOS makes sense for you, unless you get lucky and one of your local Sears stores has any TivoHds left. One poster just got one for $20.

I think you could split the coax from the ONT and put your FiOS router in the basement. Get a MoCA adapter (NIM100?) use it to install your N router in your loft.

There is a good chance the installer knows someone who will snake wire "on the side".

Again I don't think FiOS makes sense for you regardless.

edited to add--Verizon frequently offers new subscribers a deal on one FiOS DVR. I'm paying just over $8/month (2 year deal). Assuming your wife decides better HIS is worth it you might see what kind of deal you can get on one FiOS DVR. My FiOS DVR recorded Fringe, my tivo missed the show (and I forced a connection at 7:30p)
 
#1,854 ·
Okay, update... someone hit on why FiOS won't work in my home:

So now we're back to "it won't work". This is how it must be: (showing coax runs, only)

Code:
outside -- ONT ---- splitters
-------- kitchen STB
                       |-------- bedroom STB
                       |-------- splitter in Loft
                                       |----------- router
                                       |----------- CableCARD device
So there is no run back from the router to the main splitter.

So after all that, it seems like the Verizon manager I spoke to was right. FiOS won't work in my home.
Mine is set up like that and it works great!

I had all the coax in place when the installer arrived, so no extra charge.

Mine is like this:

Code:
outside -- ONT ---- Basement Splitter
                       |-------- 1st Floor (Free Verizon DVR)
                       |-------- Second floor splitter 
                                       |----------- Verizon STB
                                       |----------- Verizon STB
                       |-------- Third Floor splitter
                                       |----------- router
                                       |----------- Tivo HD
 
#1,855 ·
So now we're back to "it won't work". This is how it must be: (showing coax runs, only)

Code:
outside -- ONT ---- splitters
                       |-------- kitchen STB
                       |-------- bedroom STB
                       |-------- splitter in Loft
                                       |----------- router
                                       |----------- CableCARD device
So there is no run back from the router to the main splitter.

So after all that, it seems like the Verizon manager I spoke to was right. FiOS won't work in my home.
That will work fine. I'm not sure why you think it won't work. As long as all the coax eventually leads back to the ONT as you show you are fine.

BOb
 
#1,856 ·
We have the VZ FIOS bundle - TV, Broadband and phone. All work extremely well. All of the original phone wiring (from Comcast) is still in place.
That doesn't say how your phone is connected to the home/central office. The bundled price has nothing to do with the technical connections.

I would bet that your phone wiring is connected to the ONT (optical network teminal) not to the old copper NID (network interface device).

BOb
 
#1,857 ·
Mine is set up like that and it works great!

I had all the coax in place when the installer arrived, so no extra charge.

Mine is like this:

Code:
outside -- ONT ---- Basement Splitter
                       |-------- 1st Floor (Free Verizon DVR)
                       |-------- Second floor splitter 
                                       |----------- Verizon STB
                                       |----------- Verizon STB
                       |-------- Third Floor splitter
                                       |----------- router
                                       |----------- Tivo HD
That seems very promising. If I could get some assurance that there is a way to have a TiVo S2 drive a FiOS STB, this might still be a possibility.

One thing I'm confused about is how that third floor router manages to communicate with that second floor STB. That seems like magic to me.
 
#1,859 ·
That seems very promising. If I could get some assurance that there is a way to have a TiVo S2 drive a FiOS STB, this might still be a possibility.

One thing I'm confused about is how that third floor router manages to communicate with that second floor STB. That seems like magic to me.
They're all hooked up to the same coax. It works.
 
#1,861 ·
It isn't worth the bother or expense.

I disagree. Talking with my co-workers who have FiOS, I'm convinced that the advantage is marginal at best. I have great service with Comcast. There is no reason to take a step down (we lose the use of our S1, and our S2 becomes less reliable because it will have to operate a box, in a room where we've had a lot of electrical interference in the past -- not to mention that FiOS costs more, because they don't offer something comparable to Digital Economy) to FiOS for television, just to gain a small improvement in HSI.

No, the way it works is that you place the order, the installer comes and tells you how he's going to do the install, then, presumably you get to fight with him about it, and then you get a take-it-or-leave it choice. Unless the installer is willing to put the router in my loft without any additional expense to us, it wouldn't be worth it, and we'd all have just wasted a day. As I understand it, that's the only way it can work.
So...you've never had FIOS installed but you know "how it works" and have no first-hand experience with PQ and other "advantages" of FIOS over Comcast but believe them to be "marginal". Hmmm...sounds like you're trying to convince yourself that you've made the right decision. Glad we could help with that...or not.
 
#1,863 ·
One thing I'm confused about is how that third floor router manages to communicate with that second floor STB. That seems like magic to me.
Because you can trace a path from the router to the spliter then to the STB. The MOcA data flows both ways through the splitter... it is bi-directional signal on the same cable.

If you can get a cable TV signal at both the STB and the Router than the STB and the Router will be able to communicate.

BOb
 
#1,864 ·
Because you can trace a path from the router to the spliter then to the STB. The MOcA data flows both ways through the splitter... it is bi-directional signal on the same cable.
One potential problem is that the MoCA signals are "above" the normal cable TV signals, they're in the 1 GHz range. If you have RG-6 cable and GHz splitters you're probably OK. But if you have RG-59 cable and old 500 MHz splitters you will probably be SOL. I'm speaking theoretically since I have no personal experience with MoCA.
 
#1,865 ·
So...you've never had FIOS installed but you know "how it works" and have no first-hand experience with PQ and other "advantages" of FIOS over Comcast but believe them to be "marginal". Hmmm...sounds like you're trying to convince yourself that you've made the right decision. Glad we could help with that...or not.
Rather, I think I have all the information I need to decide how much each is better than the other, and you just don't like the decision.

As it is, I haven't eliminated FiOS from contention. They have clueless customer service personnel, and much worse customer service overall, than Comcast. However, some folks in the FiOS forum spent last night correcting a lot of very bad information Verizon has provided me.

However, thanks for trying to psychoanalyze me and trying to make the very rational and informed decision-making which I regularly engage in sound like something else, just because you didn't like its ramifications. :rolleyes:
 
#1,866 ·
One potential problem is that the MoCA signals are "above" the normal cable TV signals, they're in the 1 GHz range. If you have RG-6 cable and GHz splitters you're probably OK. But if you have RG-59 cable and old 500 MHz splitters you will probably be SOL. I'm speaking theoretically since I have no personal experience with MoCA.
I'm very concerned about the splitter in the attic, but I suspect that if that's what's holding everything up, the installer will gladly replace it, despite having to climb up a ladder to get to the splitter. As long as they can just use the coax (it's all heavy-duty stuff... RG6) it may work out.
 
#1,867 ·
Rather, I think I have all the information I need to decide how much each is better than the other, and you just don't like the decision.
Oh please, don't flatter yourself. I could care less about your decision. Your argumentative know-it-all attitude and ungrateful manner about any help folks try to give you here is just irritating and childish. It just amazes me when people ask for help and then complain and attempt to invalidate what others politely post when they receive it. Weren't you kicked off of this forum for that before? Some folks never learn.
 
#1,868 ·
Oh please, don't flatter yourself.
It's not flattery. It's simply the truth.

I could care less about your decision.
Then keep your baseless, antagonistic criticisms of it to yourself.

Your argumentative know-it-all attitude and ungrateful manner about any help folks try to give you here is just irritating and childish.
Your comment that I was referring to was not meant as helpful. You know that. You attacked blindly because you didn't like the ramifications of what you read. You probably even knew that I have more than enough insight into the relative merits of the services offered by the various providers in my area, yet you still posted your attack. Stop trying to avoid responsibility for what you wrote.

It just amazes me when people ask for help and then complain and attempt to invalidate what others politely post when they receive it.
Nice of you to label comments like "I disagree" as a complaint. Another self-serving rationalization. You might be able to label some of my other comments as impolite, but not these here. The lack of civility in this thread is all on you.

Weren't you kicked off of this forum for that before? Some folks never learn.
What are you talking about? I've never been kicked off of this forum. Have you? How many times? What did you learn from it?
 
#1,869 ·
What are you talking about? I've never been kicked off of this forum. Have you? How many times? What did you learn from it?
Hmmm....my mistake...someone else named "bicker" is listed. Must be a coincidence. Me, no never been kicked off or out of anything, but thanks for asking. 'Nuff said.
 
#1,871 ·
I had considered not posting but I didn't see any clear answer and I figure others might be in a similar situation and might need some advice. If I understand bickers problem concerning the network setup, he is thinking about switching to Fios but has some issue with placement of actual hardware (fios router in basement regular network router in a loft on the third floor, not wanting to run extra wiring etc). I don't have fios but my understanding is that their router and STB's uses MoCA for their networking and if you want to add an ethernet port somewhere if there is a cable coax all you need to do is add a MoCA adapter (Google it if you want to price them out, a quick search found some on amazon for about $70) and you are set. ASSUMING your hardware infrastructure (the cabling and splitters etc) can handle it (RG6 good, RG59 YMMV) what bicker could do is put the fios router in the basement as the Verizon people want put a MoCA adapter in the loft turn off the DHCP server and use his current router as a switch. This would make it so the only change is where the router is (now in the basement on the fios router) and uses his existing network wiring for everything else. On the wireless side (I haven't tried it, but in theory) he could use the B/G on the Fios router and N only on his current router set to Access Point mode.

Concerning S1/S2 tivo's controlling Verizon boxes I have no idea. I have never owned an S1 or S2 and Verizon isn't available in my area nor do they have any plans to be in my area.
 
#1,872 ·
Bicker--If you decide to swich to FiOS:
1) You may be told you can't have 2 routers. This is true, if you use your N router you'll be configuring it in bridge mode and it won't really be operating as a router.
2) You might want to give their DVR a try. You read possible reviews on the new Moxi (and possible new tivo's in 2010) and then decide what equipment you'll replace.
3)I don't know if any of the FiOS boxes can be controlled by tivo via serial. You
 
#1,874 ·
If I understand bickers problem concerning the network setup, he is thinking about switching to Fios but has some issue with placement of actual hardware (fios router in basement regular network router in a loft on the third floor, not wanting to run extra wiring etc).
More specifically was the implication that the router had to be connected to the ONT via Ethernet connection, instead of the reality, that they can be connected to each other solely via coax, as long as you're willing to use a MoCA router as your path to the Internet (regardless of whether you put other routers inside the LAN served by that MoCA router).

I don't have fios but my understanding is that their router and STB's uses MoCA for their networking and if you want to add an ethernet port somewhere if there is a cable coax all you need to do is add a MoCA adapter
It is even easier than that, for me, since I personally only really need one router, in my loft -- the issue was whether their router, supporting their STB's need for MoCA-served access to its data-source, could be located where I wanted that one router, as opposed to (as some of the FiOS CSRs and their manager was telling me) that it would have to be (effectively buried) in my basement.

ASSUMING your hardware infrastructure (the cabling and splitters etc) can handle it (RG6 good, RG59 YMMV)
12 year old RG6... very good as far as I can tell. Again, the only weak link might be a barrel connector (I thought originally it was a splitter, but then my wife reminded me that we had Comcast disconnect cable in the second bedroom, and therefore replaced that splitter with a barrel connector) in my attic.

what bicker could do is put the fios router in the basement as the Verizon people want; put a MoCA adapter in the loft; turn off the DHCP server and use his current router as a switch.
Yeah, that's possible as I understand it now, but presumably, based on what a lot of folks on some FiOS specific forums have been telling me since late yesterday, unnecessary. Essentially, Verizon shouldn't impose the requirement of putting their router in the basement: I'm being told it should be placed in my loft where I want it.

If not, I will not permit the installer to install my service, and I'll stick with Comcast.

... On the wireless side (I haven't tried it, but in theory) he could use the B/G on the Fios router and N only on his current router set to Access Point mode.
I'm going to go down the path of bridging my router onto their router, and use my router solely for Wireless-N traffic.

Concerning S1/S2 tivo's controlling Verizon boxes I have no idea. I have never owned an S1 or S2 and Verizon isn't available in my area nor do they have any plans to be in my area.
My understanding is that S1s never got updated IR codes for DTAs like the Motorola DCT 700, or for STBs like the Motorola QIP 2500, that FiOS uses here in the northeast. The S2s have gotten updated IR codes, of course, but I'm not sure if they have codes for the QIP 2500 -- doesn't matter because if you're going to use a S2, why have a FiOS STB? Just get the DTA, the Motorola DCT 700, and I'm pretty-sure I remember seeing some messages indicating that that is in the TiVo IR database.
 
#1,875 ·
Bicker--If you decide to swich to FiOS:
1) You may be told you can't have 2 routers. This is true, if you use your N router you'll be configuring it in bridge mode and it won't really be operating as a router.
Yeah, I suppose, if you're bridging the two (as I plan to, now). There are approaches (discussed in detail in the thread from which I got a lot of great advice late yesterday) that do involve having two routers, operating as routers. Way too complicated for me, though.

2) You might want to give their DVR a try. You read possible reviews on the new Moxi (and possible new tivo's in 2010) and then decide what equipment you'll replace.
Yeah, I'll talk with my wife about it. It's free for the first 90 days if we want it. It just seems wasteful given that my TiVo S3 had better work, and I've got 1 TB of storage in it. Having said that, I could use it as a back-up for a few months and then just return it. I can return it just seven miles down the highway, at Jordan's Furniture.

3)I don't know if any of the FiOS boxes can be controlled by tivo via serial. You
I read some indication that that was the case with at least one box. I'll research that in greater detail over the next week or so.

BTW: I called Verizon repair this morning. They asked what number I was calling for repair on and I replied, "Yours!" They tried to call the business office themselves, and got the same error. They transferred me over internally so I could make the fixes to my order, and said that they'd indeed dispatch a repair for themselves to fix the problem with their customer service line. I had a need to make another call later (because the change that I made showed up on their website apparently different from what I asked for -- turned out it is just that the website is buggy -- it shows changes and adds, but does not reflect deletions) and the call went through this time, so evidently they fixed their own line problem pretty quick. ;)
 
#1,876 ·
bicker, FYI, there was a thread in the Coffee House forum a few days ago about using serial cables between a Series 2 and the FIOS SD set-top box: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=436795

I've been considering switching to FIOS, and this is one of the issues I've been worried about (I've got 3 S2's, and can't afford to upgrade them at the present time). According to post #4 in that thread, using serial works for 3-digit channels (I've read elsewhere that the S2 doesn't support sending 4 digits to the serial port). I really want to avoid the IR blasters if I can.
 
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