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CableCARD installation FAQ

440K views 645 replies 191 participants last post by  ustavio 
#1 ·
*** 2011 update coming ***

Most of the information in this FAQ hasn't been updated since 2009; I'm working on an update.

Even though this information is stickied in the Series 3 thread, CableCARDs can be used in the original Series 3, the Tivo HD and the Premieres.

Note that Premiere and Premiere XL take a single M-stream card, like the THD. Also note that CableCARD companies must now allow self-install. This is (should be) very simple and only take 5-15 minutes.

***

This thread is to try and list common problems with CableCARD installation and activation issues. Although many have had CableCARDs sucessfully installed in a Tivo Series 3 box or the newer Tivo HD box without issue, there are a number of common issues that prevent a successfull install. And since most cable companies won't let the customer talk to the few people that truely understand CableCARDs, it can be difficult to get a problem corrected.

Please keep this thread short - DO NOT post with specific problems here - post those in the appropriate provider thread instead.

See this thread for details: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=317989

This is the current Tivo help page on CableCARD installation and troubleshooting (as of Sept 2009). Information on this page should be considered more reliable than what is posted here:
http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport...s/Installing_CableCARDs_in_a_TiVo_HD_DVR.html

Note that the above page references the newer Tivo HD boxes, where this thread was originally established for the original Series 3 box.

My specific experience is limited to Comcast and Motorola cards in the Denver area. However most of these questions/issues will apply to any cable company in any area.

1. Are there different types of CableCARDs?

Yes. There are either single-stream cards (SCards) or multi-stream cards (MCards).

SCards allow the decryption of a single stream (e.g. support for a single tuner). These have been available for a while and are still more common in the field.

MCards allow the decryption of multiple streams concurrently (e.g. support for dual tuners in the Series 3 Tivo HD boxes). You can use MCards in an original Series 3 box, but they will only function as SCards (e.g. you will need two MCards in an S3 to get dual tuner support, where you only need one MCard in a THD box).

Many CSRs (and some installers) don't know the difference between an SCard and and MCard. If possible, ask specifically for MCards, especially if you have a Tivo HD box. The good news is that MOST new card available now SHOULD be MCards.

2. Do I need one CableCARD or two?

Each of the Series 3 boxes supports recording two digital cable channels at once.
The newer Tivo HD box currently supports MCards, so you will need one MCard or two SCards for full functionality..
Currently, the software in the original Series 3 box does not support the multistream capabilities of the MCard (and this is unlikely to ever change), so you will need two CableCARDs, either SCard or MCard, to have full support.

Either type of Series 3 model Tivo will function with only one SCard, but may operate in single tuner mode.

3. Where do I get the CableCARDs?

CableCARDs are not available at retail and must be obtained from your cable company. Some areas allow customers to pick up and install their own cards, but most still require a truck roll for installation.

4. My cable company says that an installer must come to my house to install the CableCARDs. Is this true?

No, but it is fairly typical policy. Tivo provides very easy to follow instructions on how to install CableCARDs in the box. Anyone who can follow simple directions should be able to install CableCARD(s) in a few minutes. The hard part is finding someone at the cable company that knows how to properly pair and validate the card(s).

For the CableCARDs, all the installer is going to do is record some numbers off the cards themselves and some from the Tivo CableCARD configuration screens and call them into dispatch where the numbers will be entered into a computer. Despite what any CSR will tell you, there is nothing specific to a CableCARD install that an installer can do that a customer shouldn't be able to.

The only advantage to having an installer come to your house is to ensure that you have a proper cable signal feeding the Tivo.

5. My cable company says they do not support Tivo - what do I do?

Politely remind the cable rep that they are REQUIRED by the FCC and CableLabs to support the use of CableCARDs in ANY device on the approved list, including Tivo. The cable company does not have to "support" Tivo, but they must either allow you to install CableCARDs in the Tivo and activate/authorize them or do it themselves.

Both the original Series 3 and the newer Tivo HD are on the CableLabs supported device list - the Series 3 Tivo (Model TCD648250B) and Tivo HD (Model TCD652160) boxes are classified by CableLabs as set top boxes.

If your cable company is very small, they may be exempted by the FCC from having to provide CableCARDs, but this is the exception - all of the major MSOs must provide you CableCARDs at a nominal charge for use in your Tivo.

6. My cable company still says they do not support Tivo - now what?

If you still have difficulty, call the special hotline Tivo has established for CableCARD installation issues: (866) 986-8486

7. What do cable companies charge for CableCARDs?

This will vary with the provider, but generally if there is a charge it is $1.50 to $4.95 per card per month. In most cases, if you are being assessed a separate HDTV charge, you are not being charged correctly. You should have no more than one equipment rental charge per outlet - EITHER a cable company provided converter box or DVR OR CableCARD(s) - NOT BOTH.

Comcast help page regarding CableCARD fees

8. What can I do before the installer arrives?

Have the CableCARD installation sheet that came in the Tivo carton ready for your installer. They will almost certainly insist that they don't need it, but most will.

Read this FAQ and the appropriate Tivo support page for CableCARD installation: (These also show the relevant Tivo screens).

You should also run guided setup to make sure you have the current level of Tivo software loaded. Just select the option that says "I'll install CableCards later" (I don't recollect the actual text) during the setup process and select the digital line up option.

9. What should I do when the installer arrives?

Hand the CableCARD installation instructions to the installer.

MAKE SURE THEY ONLY DO ONE CARD AT A TIME. Most will insist it is OK just to put both cards in (if using SCards) and do both at once. Ask them if they want to be in your house a few minutes or a few hours. :)
(This is a very strong suggestion and Tivo's recommended procedure, not an absolute. If you have an installer than knows what they are doing and the tech on the phone gets the numbers right, there is no reason two cards can't be initialized/validated at the same time.

10. What information does the cable company need to activate a CableCARD?

They will need either the physical serial number of the card (printed on the card itself) or the CableCARD id or the unit address of the card (found on the CableCARD Pairing screen on the Tivo). In my area, Comcast only needs the physical serial number.

They will also need the Host ID and Data value (found in the pairing screen on the Tivo).

If they do not have these values properly input into their system, your cards will not be properly set up, no matter what channels you see or what anyone tells you!


11. I have my CableCARD(s) installed, but some of the channels I'm supposed to get are grey. Why?

Three likely reasons:

1) Your cable company doesn't have the proper programming tier authorized on your account.

This is not a CableCARD specific issue, but an accounting or programming authorization issue, and once corrected, the proper programming shows up through any CableCARD or digital converter you have on your account.

2) Your CableCARD is not properly paired.

In order for your cards to function properly, they must be associated or "paired" with your account. This is why the information described in question 5 is necessary. If a card is properly paired, it will work in only the host (or in the case of a Tivo, a specific CableCARD slot) and cannot be moved to another device (or slot) without having to be paired again.

To see if a card is properly paired:

For a Motorola SCard
You will see "SUBSCRIBED" in the authorization field on the Conditional Access screen from the CableCARD Menu for the card in question.

For an SA card
You will see "CP Auth Received" and "Powerkey Status: Ready"
(If they are not authorized, you get "CP Auth NOT Received" and "Powerkey Status: Waiting").

Note: You can see the values indicated and still not see all your channels - see the next sub topic on validation. If this is the case, you card is paired and authorized, but may not see the copy protected channels

3) Your CableCARD is not properly validated.

For cable companies that use copy protection flags on some channels, there is another step called validation.

When you see some channels, but not all (usually premiums like HBO or Showtime), the likely problem is that even though the CableCARDs may have had the proper pairing information entered (and are therefor authorized for your account), they
haven't been validated. This is not a problem until you start using copy protection (i.e. a non-zero CCI value on a channel). If you don't use copy protection, as long as the cards remain authorized, they can be moved between hosts and they'll still continue to decrypt anything they're authorized for.

However, with copy protected channels (non-zero CCI value), the card needs to get an additional message from the headend explicitly validating the host/CableCARD pairing information. The card will only decrypt copy protected channels after it receives this message. If you tune a copy protected channel using an unvalidated card you may see a few seconds of video before the card stops decrypting and pops up the MMI screen.

If you move cards (either put a card into a different slot, or put a different card into the same slot), that breaks the pairing validation. In the case of Motorola, breaking this also causes the card to regenerate a new data field -which then needs to be updated in the headend.

12. How do I tell if my CableCARDs are properly validated?

For a Motorola SCard:

Check the Motorola CableCARD Host Validation value on the Conditional Access screen. It should say "Valid" followed by a 2 digit number. If it says "Unknown", the card may be paired, but is not validated.

For a Motorola MCard:

Check the Motorola CableCARD Host Validation value on the Conditional Access screen. The field is "Val ?" If the card is validated, the field will start with a "V" (e.g. V 0x00). If not, there will be no "V" (e.g. 0x00)

(If someone knows the proper status for cards from other manufacturers, please PM me)


13. Do CableCARDs work with FIOS?

Yes.

14. There was an error message during the installation of the CableCARDs. Now what?

Depends on the error message. If you received a 161-4 error code, this can be safely ignored (it is actually a "good" error).

15. How do I determine the status of my CableCARD(s)?

See the Tivo troubleshooting link above.

16. How do I tell if I have a good quality cable signal for my Tivo?

(To be added)

17. Where can I find more information on troubleshooting CableCARD issues?

Tivo has a terrific page in their support section, with plenty of pictures and troubleshooting tips:

http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport...s/Installing_CableCARDs_in_a_TiVo_HD_DVR.html
 
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#252 ·
The CableCard isn't costing you $57. You also get access to CABLE channels. That is where the bullk of the charges are coming from. Paying for the HD Digital Service and CableCard gives you access to the digital versions of those CABLE channels.

A CableCard won't give you more HD OTA channels. It gives you digital CABLE channels when you subscribe to CABLE.

Are you already paying Cox for cable service? If so, then you only pay them another $7.98. This assumes you are not on a lower cost limited basic plan.
 
#253 ·
Just wanted to come back and thank everyone for this FAQ thread. The following sentence:

Check the Motorola CableCARD Host Validation value on the Conditional Access screen. The field is "Val ?" If the card is validated, the field will start with a "V" (e.g. V 0x00). If not, there will be no "V" (e.g. 0x00)
probably singularly prevented the need for a truck roll last weekend.

-Ken
 
#254 ·
Hi all - one of my cable cards died as only 1 tuner gets anything; the other tuner only gets broadcast channels - but from going through the menus they both seem to be active. I no longer see EMM Count, etc anywhere - I upgraded to M cards on my S3 bc I heard here that they are more reliable.

TWCNYC is coming tomorrow. I'd like him to only pull one card but I dont have faith he can figure out which one is live and which one is hobbled. Can someone advise?
 
#255 ·
You might want to check out the thread "no video and rapid beeping" in the TiVo Help Center forum. I'm relatively new with my S3 HD set (with 2 CCs) and had a totally unexpected beeping when I turned on the TV about a month ago. We've had the unit for about three months and all has gone well up to then. The beeping happened again last evening. I searched for "beeping" in this forum and found nothing, but one did pop up in the Help Center, so I've been posting there. However the suggestion given to me by TiVo support was that one (or both) of the CableCARDS *may* be the culprit. If you're interested, follow up there. (There's probably a way to put a link to that forum here, but since I'm new to the TiVo community, I haven't bumped into that mechanism, if it exists.)
 
#256 ·
I had to clear and delete everything a few weeks back on my Tivo HD when I replaced my hard drive. Now periodically my Tivo becomes unresponsive and you must pull the plug to reboot it. I discovered that the host ID has changed on the cablecards and they are no longer validated and Tivo thinks this is my problem. Is this something Charter can easily do over the phone or will I need a truck rollout?
 
#257 ·
I had to clear and delete everything a few weeks back on my Tivo HD when I replaced my hard drive. Now periodically my Tivo becomes unresponsive and you must pull the plug to reboot it. I discovered that the host ID has changed on the cablecards and they are no longer validated and Tivo thinks this is my problem. Is this something Charter can easily do over the phone or will I need a truck rollout?
Some cableco's will "re-hit" or "re-authorize" your cable cards over the phone. Others require a truck roll. Luck of the draw (even within some cable companies...depending on locale).
 
#258 ·
Some cableco's will "re-hit" or "re-authorize" your cable cards over the phone. Others require a truck roll. Luck of the draw (even within some cable companies...depending on locale).
I have never heard of a TRUCK ROLL to just Hit the
Cable Cards with NEW KEYS. If that were the case
I would have had 100 Truck Rolls, versus NONE.

My Recommendation is SAY NO

There certainly is NO NEED.
 
#259 ·
I have never heard of a TRUCK ROLL to just Hit the
Cable Cards with NEW KEYS. If that were the case
I would have had 100 Truck Rolls, versus NONE.

My Recommendation is SAY NO

There certainly is NO NEED.
The OP needs to have the ID re-established. Some cableco's will allow their customers to do that over the phone, others won't. "Just say no" is not an option in some areas.

You've had your cable cards re-authorized 100 times? :confused:
 
#260 ·
The OP needs to have the ID re-established. Some cableco's will allow their customers to do that over the phone, others won't. "Just say no" is not an option in some areas.

You've had your cable cards re-authorized 100 times? :confused:
Over the last 5 years, yes - at least 100 times. But I also have (5)
Cable Cards. So that is like someone having (1) Cable Card for 5 Years ;)

It all comes down to how often you use them and how often the Cable-Co
decides to change their Encryption Keys. My Cable-Co use to refresh all
the KEYS at least once a month. Since 3 out of 5 of my Cable Cards get
infrequent use - They would MISS the Key update and I needed to call.
And the reason mine would miss the KEY update is because in my Theaters,
the Units are NOT just powered off - but actually disconnected from the
AC line.

With the Digital Transition, my Cable-Co must have lengthened their key
period. It is been 6 Months and no need for a KEY Update.
 
#261 ·
first, we were told by both a comcast rep and a tech that we could pick up cablecards at the comcast office. guess what? you can't. they have to schedule a tech to come out and do it. seems like the tech would have known that. so, now it'll be 19 days before a tech can get out. comcast is beyond the pale. i can't even describe how aggravating. ah! thread hijack, and vent, over.
 
#262 ·
Over the last 5 years, yes - at least 100 times. But I also have (5)
Cable Cards. So that is like someone having (1) Cable Card for 5 Years ;)

It all comes down to how often you use them and how often the Cable-Co
decides to change their Encryption Keys. My Cable-Co use to refresh all
the KEYS at least once a month. Since 3 out of 5 of my Cable Cards get
infrequent use - They would MISS the Key update and I needed to call.
And the reason mine would miss the KEY update is because in my Theaters,
the Units are NOT just powered off - but actually disconnected from the
AC line.

With the Digital Transition, my Cable-Co must have lengthened their key
period. It is been 6 Months and no need for a KEY Update.
WOW! :eek: What a PIA! In all of the years we've had cable cards we've not once had to refresh/re-authorize them. What a nightmare. You have our sympathy. :(
 
#263 ·
first, we were told by both a comcast rep and a tech that we could pick up cablecards at the comcast office. guess what? you can't. they have to schedule a tech to come out and do it. seems like the tech would have known that. so, now it'll be 19 days before a tech can get out. comcast is beyond the pale. i can't even describe how aggravating. ah! thread hijack, and vent, over.
Yah- I have along post about this problem in another thread. I was told twice using online chat that they would ship them to me. No they won't. Was told they were at an office- no they weren't. Was told of another office I could try- I said no thanks.

Very Frustrating, and very unnecessary- everything comcast is doing with this right now. I now have a truck/tech roll coming in 10 days (Oh no charge for all my problems)
 
#264 ·
WOW! :eek: What a PIA! In all of the years we've had cable cards we've not once had to refresh/re-authorize them. What a nightmare. You have our sympathy. :(
It was one simple 30 second phone call to tech support.

I said HIT ME :p and they DID - Fixed until the Next time.

It is probably my fault because I use Power Generators and I turn them off when not using the Theater.
 
#265 ·
My problem still exists, but not as often. It seems about once a week I have to pull the plug on my Tivo. I'm hardly ever home during dispatch hours so I decided to give Charter a call while at work. I just got off the phone with them and had them send me a CCV hit instead of an initialization/pairing hit they had already sent previously. Hopefully this will revalidate my host and data id's. If not then I guess I'll call them back and try something else. U-Verse is almost here, I'm planning on switching to it once available so this will no longer be an issue. Hopefully this will work though.
 
#266 ·
Didn't work, cards are still not validated. I guess I'm going to have to wait till I'm home during disbatch hours or sit it out until U-Verse is offered in my area. At least it's only happening about once a week, I just have to remember to check in the mornings in case I have to reboot so my evening shows will get recorded.
 
#267 ·
I am sure this is in here somewhere, and I have been reading till my eyes hurt but I am going to ask anyway.

I just picked up the TivoHD, and have the TWC tech appointment tomorrow for the MCard install.

I am in Charlotte NC, and they do use SDV here. So, with a "Tru2Way" or "MCard" do I still need the SDV Tuning Adapter?

Thanks!
 
#268 ·
I am sure this is in here somewhere, and I have been reading till my eyes hurt but I am going to ask anyway.

I just picked up the TivoHD, and have the TWC tech appointment tomorrow for the MCard install.

I am in Charlotte NC, and they do use SDV here. So, with a "Tru2Way" or "MCard" do I still need the SDV Tuning Adapter?

Thanks!
Yes. Try to get the installer to bring one, if possible.

TiVo's cannot do Tru2Way with cable cards. This would not only handle the SDV upstream communications but would also allow ordering VOD and PPV via your TiVo. But it isn't designed in.

In my TWC area the installers can bring the TA with them. Apparently in other areas you have to order the TA separately via a web page, or some such folderol. Good Luck!
 
#269 ·
Just to follow up, the tech showed up with the TA (thank goodness) and the entire install only took about 30 mins. Most of that time he was training another installer on cablecards.

TWC sent a firmware update to the SA CableCard, so that took about 15 mins.

After the install was complete, I surfed a few channels and they all seemed fine.

Last night, my wife and I were watching TV and we came across 2 channels (CNN and TravelHD) that weren't accesible. We got a message saying "Temporarily Unavailalbe". I told my wife that this was very likely due to TWC (more specificlly, SDV) and not Tivo. I did ocasionally see those notes on the SA 8300HDC, but not usually on those channels.

We'll run for a few more days and see how smoothly things are, and report back. Thanks for the great thread!
 
#270 ·
Just to let folks know, I'm *finally* getting around to updating the FAQ (first post). I've had a little incentive, since I had to do a clear and delete everything on an original Series 3 box, which of course breaks the CableCARD pairing.

Now I'm trying to find someone at Comcast who can actually update the data values and re-pair, re-validate the two SCards. I'd forgotten how frustrating it was 2.5 years ago before I finally convinced the CSR it could be done without a truck roll.

I'll turn this box into "Antenna Only" use before I let Comcast send an installer to read two numbers to someone over the phone.
 
#271 ·
Now I'm trying to find someone at Comcast who can actually update the data values and re-pair, re-validate the two SCards. I'd forgotten how frustrating it was 2.5 years ago before I finally convinced the CSR it could be done without a truck roll.
I am trying to do the same thing but with Charter. Could you please let me know exactly what you did or what Comcast did to fix this issue? I have not been home during disbatch hours but everything a regular Charter support technician can do has not worked. I do not want to have to pay for a truck roll. Thanks!
 
#272 ·
FWIW, I recently purchased a refurbished HD XL and my first (biggish screen, 42” plasma) HD TV. After being a DTV-TiVo customer for several years and then (after a move – no satellite line of sight) a Comcast-TiVo customer for several years I took the plunge.

Of course I read up here on MCard issues. I got the HD XL box online and let it update itself for a week before the installer appointment.

Bottom line: I’m really happy with my purchases. HD is pretty amazing and makes watching TV much more compelling. (However, I have mixed feelings about whether that’s a good thing or not! :rolleyes: )

What surprised me was something my Comcast installer told me. This guy is a verified employee of Comcast (not a contractor) and has been working for them for a few years. He told me that he installs a CableCard about once every three or four months and that he didn’t recall ever installing one in a TiVo.

It was good to have the one-page sheet that TiVo provides with instructions. At first he acted as though he knew exactly how to do the installation, but after several false starts it was clear he didn’t know what he was doing.

After a few phone calls to his central office and my help in strongly suggesting he read the instructions slowly and carefully, everything is working fine. I’m able to do everything I expected, just like my almost three-year-old Series 2 connected to a Comcast box via the serial port – except now I can watch and record any of the HD channels on both tuners!

It’s amazing to me now how terrible my 25” LCD computer monitor/TV in my office looks in SD. Maybe I’ll be looking into getting another TiVo HD unit when the 3-year subscription expires early next year. (The bastards: You think you’re out and then they pull you back… :D )
 
#273 ·
Anyone in S FL with Concrap - Help! I've had my TiVo for 3 years and just recently purchased lifetime service. I think somehow Concrap got wind of this because this month my "CableCard HD (one way)" charge went from $1.50 per month to $13.90 ($6.95 for each CC) for "HDTV Service" (the $1.50 was additional for the second card - the first CC (or cable box rental) is supposedly included in the cost of the Digital Preferred subscription @ $19.95)
I called Concrap and they said I had been charged incorrectly for the past 3 years and the correct charge is what's on my bill now. I asked about getting a "M" card to cut that "HDTV Service charge in half, but he claimed ignorance on M cards - end of conversation.
Is this the going rate nowadays? Or am I getting screwed (as usual) from the cable company?
Are there M cards available in S Florida? Anyone had one installed recently? I'm in Boynton Beach and I believe they go through the Delray Beach office.
Thanks for any advice.
 
#274 ·
.........What surprised me was something my Comcast installer told me. This guy is a verified employee of Comcast (not a contractor) and has been working for them for a few years. He told me that he installs a CableCard about once every three or four months and that he didn’t recall ever installing one in a TiVo.
.......… )
My TWC installer told me something similar back in July. Later I learned that TiVo Digital Cable subscribers are about 0.5% of all digital subscribers on a national basis. Consider that plus they can't make any money from us for VOD or PPV or renting us one of their DVR's and draw your own conclusion.
 
#275 ·
I am in South Florida and have Comcast. I have one M-Card. They charge me a fortune to have Tivo! It really is price gouging if you ask me. They just want you to rent their HD DVR box instead. It's outrageous! The channels drop off of the card and they have no idea why! It drives me nuts! I am at my wits end with Comcast. Once we get Uverse of Fios, I'm gone!
 
#276 ·
Jeez this thread scares me. A new TivoHD is on the way to replace the Comcast HD DVR I'm currently using.

My one ray of hope is that any time I've had a Comcast tech out, the experience has been excellent. I think we must have a good local office here.

I'll report back no matter how it goes. :)
 
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