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CableCARD installation FAQ

440K views 645 replies 191 participants last post by  ustavio 
#1 ·
*** 2011 update coming ***

Most of the information in this FAQ hasn't been updated since 2009; I'm working on an update.

Even though this information is stickied in the Series 3 thread, CableCARDs can be used in the original Series 3, the Tivo HD and the Premieres.

Note that Premiere and Premiere XL take a single M-stream card, like the THD. Also note that CableCARD companies must now allow self-install. This is (should be) very simple and only take 5-15 minutes.

***

This thread is to try and list common problems with CableCARD installation and activation issues. Although many have had CableCARDs sucessfully installed in a Tivo Series 3 box or the newer Tivo HD box without issue, there are a number of common issues that prevent a successfull install. And since most cable companies won't let the customer talk to the few people that truely understand CableCARDs, it can be difficult to get a problem corrected.

Please keep this thread short - DO NOT post with specific problems here - post those in the appropriate provider thread instead.

See this thread for details: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=317989

This is the current Tivo help page on CableCARD installation and troubleshooting (as of Sept 2009). Information on this page should be considered more reliable than what is posted here:
http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport...s/Installing_CableCARDs_in_a_TiVo_HD_DVR.html

Note that the above page references the newer Tivo HD boxes, where this thread was originally established for the original Series 3 box.

My specific experience is limited to Comcast and Motorola cards in the Denver area. However most of these questions/issues will apply to any cable company in any area.

1. Are there different types of CableCARDs?

Yes. There are either single-stream cards (SCards) or multi-stream cards (MCards).

SCards allow the decryption of a single stream (e.g. support for a single tuner). These have been available for a while and are still more common in the field.

MCards allow the decryption of multiple streams concurrently (e.g. support for dual tuners in the Series 3 Tivo HD boxes). You can use MCards in an original Series 3 box, but they will only function as SCards (e.g. you will need two MCards in an S3 to get dual tuner support, where you only need one MCard in a THD box).

Many CSRs (and some installers) don't know the difference between an SCard and and MCard. If possible, ask specifically for MCards, especially if you have a Tivo HD box. The good news is that MOST new card available now SHOULD be MCards.

2. Do I need one CableCARD or two?

Each of the Series 3 boxes supports recording two digital cable channels at once.
The newer Tivo HD box currently supports MCards, so you will need one MCard or two SCards for full functionality..
Currently, the software in the original Series 3 box does not support the multistream capabilities of the MCard (and this is unlikely to ever change), so you will need two CableCARDs, either SCard or MCard, to have full support.

Either type of Series 3 model Tivo will function with only one SCard, but may operate in single tuner mode.

3. Where do I get the CableCARDs?

CableCARDs are not available at retail and must be obtained from your cable company. Some areas allow customers to pick up and install their own cards, but most still require a truck roll for installation.

4. My cable company says that an installer must come to my house to install the CableCARDs. Is this true?

No, but it is fairly typical policy. Tivo provides very easy to follow instructions on how to install CableCARDs in the box. Anyone who can follow simple directions should be able to install CableCARD(s) in a few minutes. The hard part is finding someone at the cable company that knows how to properly pair and validate the card(s).

For the CableCARDs, all the installer is going to do is record some numbers off the cards themselves and some from the Tivo CableCARD configuration screens and call them into dispatch where the numbers will be entered into a computer. Despite what any CSR will tell you, there is nothing specific to a CableCARD install that an installer can do that a customer shouldn't be able to.

The only advantage to having an installer come to your house is to ensure that you have a proper cable signal feeding the Tivo.

5. My cable company says they do not support Tivo - what do I do?

Politely remind the cable rep that they are REQUIRED by the FCC and CableLabs to support the use of CableCARDs in ANY device on the approved list, including Tivo. The cable company does not have to "support" Tivo, but they must either allow you to install CableCARDs in the Tivo and activate/authorize them or do it themselves.

Both the original Series 3 and the newer Tivo HD are on the CableLabs supported device list - the Series 3 Tivo (Model TCD648250B) and Tivo HD (Model TCD652160) boxes are classified by CableLabs as set top boxes.

If your cable company is very small, they may be exempted by the FCC from having to provide CableCARDs, but this is the exception - all of the major MSOs must provide you CableCARDs at a nominal charge for use in your Tivo.

6. My cable company still says they do not support Tivo - now what?

If you still have difficulty, call the special hotline Tivo has established for CableCARD installation issues: (866) 986-8486

7. What do cable companies charge for CableCARDs?

This will vary with the provider, but generally if there is a charge it is $1.50 to $4.95 per card per month. In most cases, if you are being assessed a separate HDTV charge, you are not being charged correctly. You should have no more than one equipment rental charge per outlet - EITHER a cable company provided converter box or DVR OR CableCARD(s) - NOT BOTH.

Comcast help page regarding CableCARD fees

8. What can I do before the installer arrives?

Have the CableCARD installation sheet that came in the Tivo carton ready for your installer. They will almost certainly insist that they don't need it, but most will.

Read this FAQ and the appropriate Tivo support page for CableCARD installation: (These also show the relevant Tivo screens).

You should also run guided setup to make sure you have the current level of Tivo software loaded. Just select the option that says "I'll install CableCards later" (I don't recollect the actual text) during the setup process and select the digital line up option.

9. What should I do when the installer arrives?

Hand the CableCARD installation instructions to the installer.

MAKE SURE THEY ONLY DO ONE CARD AT A TIME. Most will insist it is OK just to put both cards in (if using SCards) and do both at once. Ask them if they want to be in your house a few minutes or a few hours. :)
(This is a very strong suggestion and Tivo's recommended procedure, not an absolute. If you have an installer than knows what they are doing and the tech on the phone gets the numbers right, there is no reason two cards can't be initialized/validated at the same time.

10. What information does the cable company need to activate a CableCARD?

They will need either the physical serial number of the card (printed on the card itself) or the CableCARD id or the unit address of the card (found on the CableCARD Pairing screen on the Tivo). In my area, Comcast only needs the physical serial number.

They will also need the Host ID and Data value (found in the pairing screen on the Tivo).

If they do not have these values properly input into their system, your cards will not be properly set up, no matter what channels you see or what anyone tells you!


11. I have my CableCARD(s) installed, but some of the channels I'm supposed to get are grey. Why?

Three likely reasons:

1) Your cable company doesn't have the proper programming tier authorized on your account.

This is not a CableCARD specific issue, but an accounting or programming authorization issue, and once corrected, the proper programming shows up through any CableCARD or digital converter you have on your account.

2) Your CableCARD is not properly paired.

In order for your cards to function properly, they must be associated or "paired" with your account. This is why the information described in question 5 is necessary. If a card is properly paired, it will work in only the host (or in the case of a Tivo, a specific CableCARD slot) and cannot be moved to another device (or slot) without having to be paired again.

To see if a card is properly paired:

For a Motorola SCard
You will see "SUBSCRIBED" in the authorization field on the Conditional Access screen from the CableCARD Menu for the card in question.

For an SA card
You will see "CP Auth Received" and "Powerkey Status: Ready"
(If they are not authorized, you get "CP Auth NOT Received" and "Powerkey Status: Waiting").

Note: You can see the values indicated and still not see all your channels - see the next sub topic on validation. If this is the case, you card is paired and authorized, but may not see the copy protected channels

3) Your CableCARD is not properly validated.

For cable companies that use copy protection flags on some channels, there is another step called validation.

When you see some channels, but not all (usually premiums like HBO or Showtime), the likely problem is that even though the CableCARDs may have had the proper pairing information entered (and are therefor authorized for your account), they
haven't been validated. This is not a problem until you start using copy protection (i.e. a non-zero CCI value on a channel). If you don't use copy protection, as long as the cards remain authorized, they can be moved between hosts and they'll still continue to decrypt anything they're authorized for.

However, with copy protected channels (non-zero CCI value), the card needs to get an additional message from the headend explicitly validating the host/CableCARD pairing information. The card will only decrypt copy protected channels after it receives this message. If you tune a copy protected channel using an unvalidated card you may see a few seconds of video before the card stops decrypting and pops up the MMI screen.

If you move cards (either put a card into a different slot, or put a different card into the same slot), that breaks the pairing validation. In the case of Motorola, breaking this also causes the card to regenerate a new data field -which then needs to be updated in the headend.

12. How do I tell if my CableCARDs are properly validated?

For a Motorola SCard:

Check the Motorola CableCARD Host Validation value on the Conditional Access screen. It should say "Valid" followed by a 2 digit number. If it says "Unknown", the card may be paired, but is not validated.

For a Motorola MCard:

Check the Motorola CableCARD Host Validation value on the Conditional Access screen. The field is "Val ?" If the card is validated, the field will start with a "V" (e.g. V 0x00). If not, there will be no "V" (e.g. 0x00)

(If someone knows the proper status for cards from other manufacturers, please PM me)


13. Do CableCARDs work with FIOS?

Yes.

14. There was an error message during the installation of the CableCARDs. Now what?

Depends on the error message. If you received a 161-4 error code, this can be safely ignored (it is actually a "good" error).

15. How do I determine the status of my CableCARD(s)?

See the Tivo troubleshooting link above.

16. How do I tell if I have a good quality cable signal for my Tivo?

(To be added)

17. Where can I find more information on troubleshooting CableCARD issues?

Tivo has a terrific page in their support section, with plenty of pictures and troubleshooting tips:

http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport...s/Installing_CableCARDs_in_a_TiVo_HD_DVR.html
 
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#102 ·
I have an M card and an S card installed in a Series 3. I am a Charter customer. I finally now receive all channels fine (including HBO, Starz and Showtime) except one. It's a Nickelodeon teen channel called THE N (104 in my area). When I tune to it, I get video for a tenth of a second then the gray and black "Call your cable company " screen. On the Conditional Access screens, it appears that neither card has been validated. Questions:

1. Does it make sense that I would get all the premium channels except one in this scenario? (i.e. is lack of "validation" my problem?)

2. A CSR last night told me validation required a tech visit. I've had 4 tech visits and 6 cards installed in the last two weeks to get me this far. I'm inclined not to schedule another visit for a channel I won't watch much of anyway. Shouldn't I be able to "validate" by phone and, if so, can anyone help me with some buzzwords or phrases to use with the CSR to get this accomplished?

Thanks.
 
#103 ·
I suppose this could be a FAQ...

One of my cablecards seems to have lost authorization (series 3). I've tried to get them to reauthorize/rehit/repair it (the SubExpireTime is the day it quit working :( ) but after 4 failed attempts they claim it is the card and they have to do a truck roll. My company doesn't have the best track record with cablecard problems and the answer is always a truck roll. Probably not much different from the incompetence many here face.

My question: Is there any reason to power down the device when replacing a 'bad' card? The reboot procedure is over 5 minutes and can make for some awkward silence :) Or can I just swap the card, have the tech call in the appropriate numbers and wait to see encrypted channels?
The reboot can take 5 min or longer, much longer depending on what you have on your HD or HDs. That makes your question even more relevant.

You do not need to reboot when you swap out the cable cards. But you have to reboot after the tech has done with his pairing and authorization of the card. And then do a guide setup again since your channel configuration has changed.
 
#104 ·
I'm a Comcast customer in the SF Bay Area, just got a TivoHD.

I'm now on my 4th cable card install try (Mcard). The first three generated an error code of 161-38.

Question: Does the Host ID change when you swap out the cable card? My Host ID has remained the same, although the Data ID is different each time a new cable card is inserted.

The Comcast phone rep told me the problem is with my Tivo and there's nothing wrong with the CCs.

I'm skeptical.
 
#105 ·
I'm a Comcast customer in the SF Bay Area, just got a TivoHD.

I'm now on my 4th cable card install try (Mcard). The first three generated an error code of 161-38.

Question: Does the Host ID change when you swap out the cable card? My Host ID has remained the same, although the Data ID is different each time a new cable card is inserted.

The Comcast phone rep told me the problem is with my Tivo and there's nothing wrong with the CCs.

I'm skeptical.
Your Comcast Cable guy could be very right. That error code
if from TiVo - not the M-Card.

Check with TiVo Tech Support - they answer the phone.
 
#107 ·
I talked to Tivo and they told me the Host ID stays the same regardless of switching out the CC.

So I'm off to do battle with Comcast.
TiVo should know - but one thing I know with my 5
other DVRs - NOT TiVo - Everytime a Cablecard is
removed and even inserted back into the same DVR
30 seconds later - THE PAIRING INFO CHANGES and
Comcast needs to do it all over again.
 
#108 ·
I'm a Comcast customer in the SF Bay Area, just got a TivoHD.

I'm now on my 4th cable card install try (Mcard). The first three generated an error code of 161-38.
This may sound odd, but if you get the card paired and authorized and this error code is your remaining issue, have you tried just letting it "bake" for 24 hrs? I saw this code on my THD during card install and first 12 or so hours afterwards, but I get all my channels so I let it alone and haven't seen that code again. In other threads, others have reported the same experience.
 
#109 ·
This may sound odd, but if you get the card paired and authorized and this error code is your remaining issue, have you tried just letting it "bake" for 24 hrs? I saw this code on my THD during card install and first 12 or so hours afterwards, but I get all my channels so I let it alone and haven't seen that code again. In other threads, others have reported the same experience.
I'm on the 4th CC now, no error code (yet). With the previous 3 cards, the error code came up before they could even be authorized or paired.

The current CC seems to be receiving info from the headend (EMM count keeps going up) but still isn't "authorized".

The last Comcast rep I spoke with sounded at least somewhat familiar with CCs and corrected the serial number of the card (which was incorrect in their system - no wonder the prior 3 calls produced no results. Ugh.). He resent the (HOPEFULLY) proper signals.

I'm going to let it sit overnight and see if that does any good. If not, I guess I'll spending Sunday on the phone with Comcast.
 
#110 ·
I found this on the Tivo help forum:

As TiVo gets busy for downloading a lot of channel info in the setup stage, not while it's running normally, I don't think that could have been causing the case. And the Firmware Upgrade doesn't happen while it's running regularly. It displays a special message on screen and stop doing everything but upgrading firmware. So, this shouldn't be the case either. Moreover, the error of 161-38 indicates that that's caused by CableCARD, not TiVo.
That being said, I am seeing exactly the same symptom - no single hitch after the first day. I am feeling uncomfortable with it but can't complain since no errors :-/

i would seem to indicate that after 24hours the card will settle down and stop giving the error.
 
#111 ·
Hopefully a quick question: How should cablecards be physically handled? by that i mean should you hold them in your bare hands without danger of shorting them out. I only ask because the last tech that was at my house to install a CC just carried it in his hand, turning it over and over in his hands like it was a credit card.
 
#112 ·
Hopefully a quick question: How should cablecards be physically handled? by that i mean should you hold them in your bare hands without danger of shorting them out. I only ask because the last tech that was at my house to install a CC just carried it in his hand, turning it over and over in his hands like it was a credit card.
They are not that fragile. Have you ever messed with a pcmcia card? About the same size and feel.
 
#113 ·
So after 3 more long calls with Comcast CSRs who were unable to get the CC initialized and paired I finally asked for a truck roll this morning. They were able to schedule one for this afternoon (very unusual!).

Tech showed up, I was a little concerned because he said he hadn't done a Tivo CC install in "a while", but had done quite a few in December.

They couldn't get the last CC I picked up from the Comcast office to work, so he tried one he had picked up at the warehouse that morning and VOILA, it worked like a charm.:up: Took about 10 minutes for the channels to show up, but once they did everything worked perfectly.

His supervisor said that most of the cards customers pick up themselves don't seem to work. They don't know why but it seems to just be that way. The tech said he has had few problems with the cards they get from the warehouse.

He agreed that training on CC Tivo activation/pairing seems to be a low priority for the callcenters.:rolleyes:

But all is sunshine and ponies now because I've got my TIVO back!

Edited to add:
The only thing the installer did that I DIDN'T do was call his dispatch center. I asked him why they didn't just give customers a dedicated number to call instead of making us call the 800 number and deal with often clueless reps, especially since there doesn't seem to be a high volume of Tivo users at the moment (he said they got a flood of Tivo CC installs right around Christmas but haven't had very many since then). He replied with a sheepish grin and a shoulder shrug. Can't really blame him.

Also, just to clarify, the Host ID NEVER changed from cable card to cable card (the Data ID did change). FIVE different cable cards. So if comcast tries to tell you that it should they are wrong.

Also, the installer confirmed that the 161-38 error is a cable card issue, not a Tivo issue.
 
#115 ·
Atlantic broadband in Florida told me they don't send installers for m cards

Atlantic broadband told me to pickup the m card for the TIVO HD and install myself

What are the steps that I have to take to get all the channels

Is it easy to do myself

Thank You

Fred
Your TiVo came with a cable card installation sheet or you can find the instructions here. You'll need the cable card activation telephone number from your cable company so you can call in and give them the numbers that they're looking for. That will allow them to "pair" your cable card. (That's usually where people run into trouble as most cable companies don't want anyone but their techs calling in.) Other than that just follow the directions and you should be fine.

Once your cable card is properly set up, just run Guided Setup from the Settings menu and everything should be working.
 
#116 ·
Can anyone comment on the ability of the Original Series 3 and it's use of CableCards: either s-card OR m-card?
I do recall that the new Tivo HD units do make use of the m-cards (only one needed for both tuners) but the original Series 3 requires 2 s-cards or 2 m-cards to enable both tuners.
Did the Summer Update change this requirement?:confused:

I want to get ready for the Fall! Finally going to go CC + OTA

TWC in Rochester NY, home of the SDV experiment:down:
 
#117 ·
Series 3 will require two cards, I beleive it is a hardware issue not software.
Tivo has discontinued the Series 3 in favor of the Tivo HD so I don't think you will eveer see the Series 3 using a single card.
 
#118 ·
Series 3 will require two cards, I beleive it is a hardware issue not software.
Tivo has discontinued the Series 3 in favor of the Tivo HD so I don't think you will ever see the Series 3 using a single card.
TivoPony stated in the forums that it was technically possible, but the feature and investment in time did not justify the R&D. :rolleyes:

So I will have to get the two S or M-cards either way. I was hoping to reduce my already sky-high cable bill a little.

How about one card and continue with OTA HD? Would Tivo know that it would need to record form the CC for those channels that it cannot get from the OTA input? Or would it not record something because it was recording from the CC that which it could get from the OTA input? :confused:
 
#119 ·
Not to change your thinking, but have you checked to see how much 2 CC's cost? Our first one is free and the second one is $1.50/mo. YMMV of course.
 
#122 ·
Your TiVo came with a cable card installation sheet or you can find the instructions here. You'll need the cable card activation telephone number from your cable company so you can call in and give them the numbers that they're looking for. That will allow them to "pair" your cable card. (That's usually where people run into trouble as most cable companies don't want anyone but their techs calling in.) Other than that just follow the directions and you should be fine.

Once your cable card is properly set up, just run Guided Setup from the Settings menu and everything should be working.
Thanks for the info but the "instructions here" link does not work for me.
 
#123 ·
#126 ·
TW is coming out tomorrow for my install so these instructions are great to have. :up: Wish me luck!
Best of luck...but you shouldn't need it if they follow the directions. If they're installing an "M" card it's very straight forward; install in slot one and activate it. If they're installing two "S" cards, gently remind the tech that the slot 1 card needs to be installed and activated/paired first, then the second card in slot 2. Some try to do them both at the same time and that won't work. Let us know how it goes!
 
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