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Tivo vs. Hopper

33K views 118 replies 29 participants last post by  tibbyjr 
#1 ·
We're thinking of getting DISH but wondering if buying the lifetime Tivo might be better than going with the Hopper. We hate subscriptions. Although being able to record 2000 hours on the Hopper is better than 75 on the Tivo, how many shows can you watch? Also the monthly fees on the Hopper plus Joey go up $12/month for a second TV. But we haven't tried either interface. Any thoughts, opinions?:confused:
 
#53 ·
Sorry, but I think I'm not stating the case well. We do watch a fair bit of TV, probably about 25-30 hours per week BUT we're paying for a lot of TV we don't watch, hundreds of channels worth, much of it sports, which we're forced to pay for if we want AMC, FX, TBS, etc. for their original content.
If you watch much of any TV, I have a real hard time believing that cutting the cord makes any sense, even if you could get the content you want to watch.

Comcast must have pretty good PQ, because TWC PQ is far worse than Dish where I live. That said, I am looking forward to better PQ with OTA.
A lot of OTA is heavily compressed too...
 
#54 ·
If you watch much of any TV, I have a real hard time believing that cutting the cord makes any sense, even if you could get the content you want to watch.
Believe it, my friend. I've done the analysis, and we're only going to miss exactly 1 show, which is available as an audio podcast or in Internet video clips.

A lot of OTA is heavily compressed too...
Certainly, but , at worst, it shouldn't look any worse than what I'm getting with Dish now for the same channel, which is received and transcoded to MP4 and back before I see it. I am sure some of the sub-channels will look like hell, but they do now.
 
#55 ·
Believe it, my friend. I've done the analysis, and we're only going to miss exactly 1 show, which is available as an audio podcast or in Internet video clips.
Then you're watching a small amount of TV, and shows that happen to be available online. Many shows are not available online in any meaningful way.

Certainly, but , at worst, it shouldn't look any worse than what I'm getting with Dish now for the same channel, which is received and transcoded to MP4 and back before I see it. I am sure some of the sub-channels will look like hell, but they do now.
DISH may be getting a fiber feed, although they may not, so who knows how it will end up comparing...
 
#56 ·
Sorry, but I think I'm not stating the case well. We do watch a fair bit of TV, probably about 25-30 hours per week BUT we're paying for a lot of TV we don't watch, hundreds of channels worth, much of it sports, which we're forced to pay for if we want AMC, FX, TBS, etc. for their original content.
That argument always annoys me. Sure you are paying for tv you don't watch. But you are also paying lower prices than you otherwise would for tv you do watch.

25-30 hrs/week means you are getting your money's worth at the cable tv buffet.
 
#57 ·
That argument always annoys me.
The one that annoys me is the notion that if one does not have cable, they must not watch a lot of TV.

I must be an outlier. I have nothing to do BUT watch TV. With the amount of time I have on my hands these days, you'd probably think I struggle to find something to watch.
Nope. My 2TB Tivo capacity is at 90% and I have another 2TB worth of shows sitting on my computer. Way more than I have time to watch. I would just be throwing money away if I subscribed to cable.
 
#58 ·
The one that annoys me is the notion that if one does not have cable, they must not watch a lot of TV.

I must be an outlier. I have nothing to do BUT watch TV. With the amount of time I have on my hands these days, you'd probably think I struggle to find something to watch.
Nope. My 2TB Tivo capacity is at 90% and I have another 2TB worth of shows sitting on my computer. Way more than I have time to watch. I would just be throwing money away if I subscribed to cable.
I agree I am OTA and free streaming only and have way more content to watch than I ever will have time for. But I am not very picky about what I watch and care nothing about sports. I do go to the movies a few times per month and rent a few Blu-rays from RedBox so I am guessing I do pay for around 4 movies/mo and do turn Hulu+ back on at times but because of the free 6 months I got from TiVo and bing rewards I have only paid for 3 months over the last 4 years and don't expect to ever pay again as long as bing rewards is around.
 
#59 ·
That argument always annoys me. Sure you are paying for tv you don't watch. But you are also paying lower prices than you otherwise would for tv you do watch.

25-30 hrs/week means you are getting your money's worth at the cable tv buffet.
Sorry to annoy you. Perhaps you could describe what exactly is annoying about wanting less of my money to go for things I don't like and more to go to the things I do like?

Thanks,
Ted
 
#60 ·
Then you're watching a small amount of TV, and shows that happen to be available online. Many shows are not available online in any meaningful way.
Or perhaps you are just unaware of how much is available online? Perhaps you could go through your Season Passes and share some shows which aren't available online, because, as I said, I only found 1 in my list.

DISH may be getting a fiber feed, although they may not, so who knows how it will end up comparing...
I can say that the HD OTA broadcasts I get now on my TVs are less "soft" and "bright" than the same shows I get from Dish. I am not saying Dish looks bad, but OTA looks better. I am not an expert in what things should look like on a properly calibrated set, so my descriptions are just my personal impressions.
 
#61 ·
The one that annoys me is the notion that if one does not have cable, they must not watch a lot of TV.

I must be an outlier. I have nothing to do BUT watch TV. With the amount of time I have on my hands these days, you'd probably think I struggle to find something to watch.
Nope. My 2TB Tivo capacity is at 90% and I have another 2TB worth of shows sitting on my computer. Way more than I have time to watch. I would just be throwing money away if I subscribed to cable.
Because most of the content is on cable, and a lot of the good stuff is even moving upwards to HBO. At this point, I consider TV to be the second digital package up (XF Preferred on Comcast) plus HBO, as that's where the majority of the good content is.

Or perhaps you are just unaware of how much is available online? Perhaps you could go through your Season Passes and share some shows which aren't available online, because, as I said, I only found 1 in my list.
It's very hit or miss. Some stuff is and some stuff isn't. So if you want to watch particular shows, you're going to find some that aren't online. Then you add sports and HBO, and cable is very well entrenched.

Alright, my Season Passes, not including a whole bunch that aren't active right now:

NOVA- available through PBS online or OTA
Frontline- available through PBS online or OTA
Nature- available through PBS online or OTA
VICE- HBO only
Silicon Valley- HBO only
Real Time with Bill Maher- HBO only
Cosmos- OTA, not available streaming
Mythbusters- Purchase only through Amazon, iTunes, VUDU
This Old House- available through PBS online or OTA
Big Bang Theory- OTA or purchase through Amazon, iTunes, VUDU
Daily Show- available delayed through web or purchase
Colbert Report- available delayed through web or purchase
Last Week Tonight- HBO only
The Rachel Maddow Show- available delayed through iTunes podcast
Manual: Monday Night HBO Docs- HBO only
American Experience- available through PBS online or OTA

Live (for this past season):
UConn Men’s basketball- in addition to CBS, requires cable package with ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, SNY, CBS SN
UConn Women’s basketball- requires cable package with ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, SNY, BTN, CBS SN
March Madness- in addition to CBS, requires cable package with TBS, TNT, and TruTV

So the breakdown is it's mostly HBO and sports, plus some shows that require a purchase or are delayed (or both). Once I move to an area that has AJAM, I will watch some of that as well. I have watched other stuff on Discovery and Animal Planet as well, although those have gone way downhill.

Now add in the cost of buying some shows a la carte, take away the convenience of TiVo for shows that aren't available OTA, and add in the cost of the Comcast de-bundling fee, and you can see why cord cutting is mostly hype. I also want to get into a few other HBO shows, and I've watched some really good documentaries on HBO GO, so that's more cable tie-in right there.

I can say that the HD OTA broadcasts I get now on my TVs are less "soft" and "bright" than the same shows I get from Dish. I am not saying Dish looks bad, but OTA looks better. I am not an expert in what things should look like on a properly calibrated set, so my descriptions are just my personal impressions.
No matter where they are getting the feed, they are likely compressing it heavily. MPEG-4 is a lot better with motion, but it tends to get soft quickly as well if it's bitrate starved.
 
#63 ·
I'm amazed anyone is replying to this thread as the OP never replied from his original post and probably bought a hopper already.

This thread is officially a drive-by.
Because it's semi off-topic. Of course it is. It's a forum.
 
#64 ·
It's very hit or miss. Some stuff is and some stuff isn't. So if you want to watch particular shows, you're going to find some that aren't online. Then you add sports and HBO, and cable is very well entrenched.

Alright, my Season Passes, not including a whole bunch that aren't active right now:

VICE- HBO only
Silicon Valley- HBO only
Real Time with Bill Maher- HBO only
Daily Show- available delayed through web or purchase
Colbert Report- available delayed through web or purchase
...
So, first of all, you and I watch many of the same shows, minus the sports. The Daily Show and Colbert are also available on Hulu BTW. HBO is the toughest to deal with, especially Maher. Most original programming is available on iTunes, including VICE, but you do have to wait a while for it. Alternately, you can get it on Netflix Blu-Ray in the mail, if you can wait even longer. Sadly, Maher only seems to be available as an audio podcast. This is the same issue I ran into with the Suze Orman show my wife watches.

Now add in the cost of buying some shows a la carte, take away the convenience of TiVo for shows that aren't available OTA, and add in the cost of the Comcast de-bundling fee, and you can see why cord cutting is mostly hype. I also want to get into a few other HBO shows, and I've watched some really good documentaries on HBO GO, so that's more cable tie-in right there.

No matter where they are getting the feed, they are likely compressing it heavily. MPEG-4 is a lot better with motion, but it tends to get soft quickly as well if it's bitrate starved.
As I already have to use an interface other than the DVR to watch lots of TV, doing it more often really isn't an inconvenience in my mind. My cable option (TWC) is so bad, I am already paying for Internet only as I am on Dish. Getting rid of Dish is $100+ per month I can spend on other stuff, including individual seasons of shows.

About half the people I know locally have cut the cord in some fashion or another (Netflix/Amazon only or some combination of OTA and streaming). People are sick of high prices for the what they are getting, and many will find other ways to get their content for less. I already watch so few things live, or even the next day, and I have so much to choose from, that waiting a year for the new season of some show isn't really a big deal in most cases.

I think the consensus on Dish MPEG4 is it is fairly bit-starved and we also know it is down-rezed to 1440x1080 for 1080i content.
 
#66 ·
So, first of all, you and I watch many of the same shows, minus the sports. The Daily Show and Colbert are also available on Hulu BTW. HBO is the toughest to deal with, especially Maher. Most original programming is available on iTunes, including VICE, but you do have to wait a while for it. Alternately, you can get it on Netflix Blu-Ray in the mail, if you can wait even longer. Sadly, Maher only seems to be available as an audio podcast. This is the same issue I ran into with the Suze Orman show my wife watches.
So you have good taste in TV. :D

The purchase delays are long, and you're back to buying individual episodes, and it ends up being as much as cable with way less content. How quickly are Colbert and Stewart up on Hulu? It's just such a mess.

As I already have to use an interface other than the DVR to watch lots of TV, doing it more often really isn't an inconvenience in my mind. My cable option (TWC) is so bad, I am already paying for Internet only as I am on Dish. Getting rid of Dish is $100+ per month I can spend on other stuff, including individual seasons of shows.
I like TiVo, where everything is pulled down from cable and available in one nice, clean interface for me to watch, and available throughout the house. The other services are a relative kludge. If I had to go through some other device, there's no way I'd be able to watch the shows that I do.

About half the people I know locally have cut the cord in some fashion or another (Netflix/Amazon only or some combination of OTA and streaming). People are sick of high prices for the what they are getting, and many will find other ways to get their content for less. I already watch so few things live, or even the next day, and I have so much to choose from, that waiting a year for the new season of some show isn't really a big deal in most cases.

I think the consensus on Dish MPEG4 is it is fairly bit-starved and we also know it is down-rezed to 1440x1080 for 1080i content.
I know a few cord nevers, but all of them have access to cabe at some other location, and some have logins for the services as well. Most people I know have some sort of cable service...

Yeah, it's not technically HD. It's controversial, since it may avoid even worse bit starvation if they used the full resolution at a similar bitrate, but it's still not right.
 
#67 ·
So you have good taste in TV. :D

The purchase delays are long, and you're back to buying individual episodes, and it ends up being as much as cable with way less content. How quickly are Colbert and Stewart up on Hulu? It's just such a mess.
Colbert and Stewart are on Hulu the next day. The April 30 shows are up today.

I like TiVo, where everything is pulled down from cable and available in one nice, clean interface for me to watch, and available throughout the house. The other services are a relative kludge. If I had to go through some other device, there's no way I'd be able to watch the shows that I do.
Well, the nice thing is Netflix, Hulu, (and hopefully Amazon Prime soon?) are all viewable and searchable on Tivo, which is actually one of the reasons I am interested in the Roamio. :)
 
#68 ·
Colbert and Stewart are on Hulu the next day. The April 30 shows are up today.
That's not bad, but it still doesn't cover everything else...

Well, the nice thing is Netflix, Hulu, (and hopefully Amazon Prime soon?) are all viewable and searchable on Tivo, which is actually one of the reasons I am interested in the Roamio. :)
That's still not nearly as quick and easy as just playing back a recording... I don't mind searching around for some oddball content or movies, which I already do as a supplement to cable, but for regular usage, it would be a real PITA.
 
#69 ·
That's still not nearly as quick and easy as just playing back a recording... I don't mind searching around for some oddball content or movies, which I already do as a supplement to cable, but for regular usage, it would be a real PITA.
I guess I am already used to it. It is a requirement for us today. Doing it more isn't a big deal.

-Ted
 
#70 ·
Sorry to annoy you. Perhaps you could describe what exactly is annoying about wanting less of my money to go for things I don't like and more to go to the things I do like?

Thanks,
Ted
The annoying part is you complain about paying for content you don't watch while forgetting this also means you are paying much less (than you otherwise would) for the content you do watch. Remember others are saying the same thing as you and paying for the channels you watch and they don't.

And you say this while watching 25-30 hrs a tv per week. The math seems like it works out in your favor. It sounds like a cabletv/satellitetv package is actually a great deal for you. Not sure why you would be complaining.
 
#71 ·
The annoying part is you complain about paying for content you don't watch while forgetting this also means you are paying much less (than you otherwise would) for the content you do watch. Remember others are saying the same thing as you and paying for the channels you watch and they don't.

And you say this while watching 25-30 hrs a tv per week. The math seems like it works out in your favor. It sounds like a cabletv/satellitetv package is actually a great deal for you. Not sure why you would be complaining.
Yeah, that's why cord cutting is so over-hyped. Everything quickly adds up to be the same or more than cable anyways...
 
#72 ·
The annoying part is you complain about paying for content you don't watch while forgetting this also means you are paying much less (than you otherwise would) for the content you do watch. Remember others are saying the same thing as you and paying for the channels you watch and they don't.

And you say this while watching 25-30 hrs a tv per week. The math seems like it works out in your favor. It sounds like a cabletv/satellitetv package is actually a great deal for you. Not sure why you would be complaining.
Sorry you don't see it. It is a simple proposition: pay the same or (most likely) less and still get to watch the things I like while not funding drivel I care nothing for. If that isn't for you, I am not annoyed. Not sure why you care, but you clearly do, so my deepest apologies.
 
#73 ·
Sorry you don't see it. It is a simple proposition: pay the same or (most likely) less and still get to watch the things I like while not funding drivel I care nothing for. If that isn't for you, I am not annoyed. Not sure why you care, but you clearly do, so my deepest apologies.
I understand what you want and where you're coming from. But you are ignoring the much higher rates you would pay per channel in an ala carte option. And don't seem to very cognizant of how much your 25-30 hrs of tv watching per week sits in the sweet spot of value derived from a cable or satellite tv package.

You only mention how your satellite tv package negatively affects you when making your argument.
 
#74 ·
Yeah, that's why cord cutting is so over-hyped. Everything quickly adds up to be the same or more than cable anyways...
Exactly.

I never quite understood it except from the perspective of a person or couple who watches very little tv or doesn't mind watching whatever older content.

I've lived in 3 quite different parts of the country in the past 5 years and I've had the expanded basic type of cable package and its never been more than $60/month. Right now it's like $40 something maybe $50. It was $30/month for the 1st year. I own all my own equipment.

But yet when people talk about the price of their cabletv package they always quote $100+/month??!??

That never made sense and from what I've always seen is people are including their internet cost in there and then making it look like they are going to save that entire $100/month if they cut the cord. Plus of course have no drop in content. It never makes any sense.

If you want to save, then instead of cord cutting, just switch satellite/cabletv providers every year or two.
 
#75 ·
Exactly.

I never quite understood it except from the perspective of a person or couple who watches very little tv or doesn't mind watching whatever older content.

I've lived in 3 quite different parts of the country in the past 5 years and I've had the expanded basic type of cable package and its never been more than $60/month. Right now it's like $40 something maybe $50. It was $30/month for the 1st year. I own all my own equipment.

But yet when people talk about the price of their cabletv package they always quote $100+/month??!??

That never made sense and from what I've always seen is people are including their internet cost in there and then making it look like they are going to save that entire $100/month if they cut the cord. Plus of course have no drop in content. It never makes any sense.

If you want to save, then instead of cord cutting, just switch satellite/cabletv providers every year or two.
It really depends on each person/famlies situation. I "cut the cord" years ago, I watch maybe 2-3 hours of TV per day and have plenty of stuff to watch (in fact more than I have time for as I have about 7 TBs of saved shows now). But I live alone and am not to picky when it comes to what I watch and have access to Redbox to rent movies at a very low cost.

Regarding what Pay TV costs - as everyone knows it is all over the place, my Parents have dish network, 2 receivers no DVRs, SD only, the second tier package with no premiums and it costs $78/mo. For them spending the $78 makes perfect sense, however for me it would be a ridiculous waist of money.
 
#76 ·
Exactly.

I never quite understood it except from the perspective of a person or couple who watches very little tv or doesn't mind watching whatever older content.

I've lived in 3 quite different parts of the country in the past 5 years and I've had the expanded basic type of cable package and its never been more than $60/month. Right now it's like $40 something maybe $50. It was $30/month for the 1st year. I own all my own equipment.

But yet when people talk about the price of their cabletv package they always quote $100+/month??!??

That never made sense and from what I've always seen is people are including their internet cost in there and then making it look like they are going to save that entire $100/month if they cut the cord. Plus of course have no drop in content. It never makes any sense.

If you want to save, then instead of cord cutting, just switch satellite/cabletv providers every year or two.
The TV portion on most providers is in the $70 range plus HBO, and that's with no equipment. Since you move around a lot, I'd imagine that you've had promo deals for a year or two at a time?
 
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